U2 FAQ

Question:

X-NoArchive: yes Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Hey Ron, You are not alone in having a shitty day. I’ve just had a bad one myself – one thing after another. Perspective – I’ve been trying to gain this too. It is hard.

You have that right Suzanne!  I hope that today is better for you. Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Oh Ron, I’d be pissed as HELL, myself.  You’ve been violated!  These a$$holes that damage other people’s property should have their heads bashed in so they can see what it feels like!  I’m glad it didn’t effect how people felt about it though.  Did you file a police report?? Hang in there, sweetie.   Cry all you want.   You’re such a good person, and you would never do that to anyone else. It hurts!

I didn’t file a report as the damage dollar value probably isn’t significant and who knows where those reports go that you don’t want. There isn’t a hope that it would be persued anyway by the police. I’m over it now and I will do the repair myself or with my neighbour’s help. It isn’t going to be an expensive or labour intensive repair…it doesn’t have to be absolutely perfect. The tears may have helped my sinuses a bit as they were bothering me more than usual:) Ron P Just remember….if the world didn’t suck, we’d all fall off. Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective……

Dear Ron, I do know how you feel.  I have reacted in the same manner over things others would find mundane.  It is good that you recognize it (perspective). You will sell that RV, maybe even to the people who saw the hole.  If not, just get it fixed and keep looking for a buyer. Take care, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m so sorry, Ron.  I think you were crying from shock and maybe loss and/or betrayal that this would happen to your RV.  Things were going well and then, out of the blue, what *appeared* to be disaster struck. Sometimes this stuff is a trigger when we’ve been down in general, or holding anxieties in.  I’m not trying to psychanalyze you! — just looking at some ways of thinking about what happened and how it affected you today.  This reminds me of another ASAPMer’s experience of having an unexpected teary breakdown when a bird crapped on him when he was outside in a public place. Shock, humiliation, anger, etc. all collide inside us at such moments. (((((((Ron)))))))   Hope the sale proceeds without incident. xxoo Anne

Wow, Anne, will you be MY psychologist?  :) Hugs, Vicki — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Dear Ron, I do know how you feel.  I have reacted in the same manner over things others would find mundane.  It is good that you

recognize it (perspective). You will sell that RV, maybe even to the people who

saw the hole.  If not, just get it fixed and keep looking for a buyer. Take care, Vicki

It would be great to sell it but it isn’t a necessity to sell it and that makes a big difference. I think I saw a message that said that you are in the path of the hurricane that is coming to Florida and area. Keep safe. I will be thinking of you all down there. (((((Vicki))))) Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

X-NoArchive: yes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective……

Hey Ron, You are not alone in having a shitty day. I’ve just had a bad one myself – one thing after another. Perspective – I’ve been trying to gain this too. It is hard. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Ron, I am sorry to hear about the RV.  When things like

this occur it catches us off guard and emotions can be out of control. ((((((Ron)))))) smiles, Elise

Crap happens I guess. It did catch me completely by surprise in a situation that I always find stressful to say the least. I am telling myself not to worry about it and to get on with my life. The repair isn’t a huge one but it will be tricky to make it look good. Thank you Elise Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

message This is the kind of thing that makes me want to explode. Stupid people doing stupid destructive things for stupid reasons. Like whoever took the battery out of my

me miss a delivery. On the other hand, perspective perspective

perspective is a pretty darn good mantra Deirdre

At the best of times, my "fuse" is almost non-existant with this type of thing. Someone took the battery out of your doorbell??!!! That is getting very petty and it could under some circumstances be dangerous.  Can you get a doorbell that isn’t battery powered? I hope that the deli very wasn’t urgent. (((((Deirdre ))))) — Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <Gently snipped ::I went home for lunch and returned an hour later ::approximately to show it again to another person. ::There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a ::quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with ::such force that it broke the fiberglass and even ::distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let ::loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t ::stopped. I just couldn’t believe it. Dear Ron, I`m so sorry this happened to you! It`s a lousy

feeling to have a stranger damage or destroy something you have worked so very

hard for. I`ll never forget when someone shot out my windshield. I cried just

like you. I cried because of the money I would have to spend to replace it, the

inconvenience…. and the feeling of being violated. Wishing you a better tomorrow!                             (((((Ron))))) Jackie

Thank you Jackie, this is my tomorrow and it is much better. Time and a good night’s sleep sure can make a difference. You had a window "shot out", holy mackerel. I hope that you weren’t in the car at the time! The money, inconvenience and violation certainly do grab hold in such instances don’t they. —– I think I may be getting mixed up in my replies…can’t tell as I am jumping back and forth between Outlook Express to read and Yahoo to reply so if I have missed one I apologize. It isn’t intentional. Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Now that several hours have passed, and I have my head more together, I will do the repair myself and if I need help my good friend and neighbour offered to help out. He used to own an RV and had to make similar repairs.

Ah now, that’s great to hear! Hope the repairs go well. I think that I have this under control. At least more so than yesterday:)

Good! It often takes a bit of time to get over some shock before you can get a grip on how to fix the problem, doesn’t it? Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

It always works out, Ron.  Hang in there… smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, Ron, I am sorry to hear about the RV.  When things like this occur it catches us off guard and emotions can be out of control. ((((((Ron)))))) smiles, Elise Crap happens I guess. It did catch me completely by surprise in a situation that I always find stressful to say the least. I am telling myself not to worry about it and to get on with my life. The repair isn’t a huge one but it will be tricky to make it look good. Thank you Elise Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… {{{Ron}}} That senseless stuff folks do can get to me too.

The anxiety going into this exercise was enough but when that happened, all hell broke loose. I will now see how my repair skills are and I hate doing repairs. I have put some duct tape over the hole to keep the rain out so I don’t have to scramble to get it done…just yet. My OCD wants me to do it NOW but THAT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN (I tells myself) <8-| Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

So sorry Ron!  :-(  People can be such creeps some times.  I hope everything works out for you.  {{{{{Ron}}}}}  I would feel the same way if it happened to me. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Ron P

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, Ron, I am sorry to hear about the RV.  When things like this occur it catches us off guard and emotions can be out of control. ((((((Ron)))))) smiles, Elise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

The anxiety going into this exercise was enough but when that happened, all hell broke loose.

I can imagine, I’d feel the same way. I will now see how my repair skills are and I hate doing repairs. I have put some duct tape over the hole to keep the rain out so I don’t have to scramble to get it done…just yet. My OCD wants me to do it NOW but THAT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN (I tells myself) <8-|

Do you think you can fix it or do you maybe know someone who could help? Wish I could send a handyman over to fix it for you, get it over and done with! Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

This is the kind of thing that makes me want to explode. Stupid people doing stupid destructive things for stupid reasons. me miss a delivery. On the other hand, perspective perspective perspective is a pretty darn good mantra Deirdre

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Ron P

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

to keep the rain out so I don’t have to scramble to get it done…just yet. My OCD wants me to do it NOW but THAT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN (I tells myself) <8-| Do you think you can fix it or do you maybe know someone who could help? Wish I could send a handyman over to fix it for you, get it over and done with! Vashti

Now that several hours have passed, and I have my head more together, I will do the repair myself and if I need help my good friend and neighbour offered to help out. He used to own an RV and had to make similar repairs. I think that I have this under control. At least more so than yesterday:) Thank you Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m so sorry, Ron.  I think you were crying from shock and maybe loss and/or betrayal that this would happen to your RV.  Things were going well and then, out of the blue, what *appeared* to be disaster struck. Sometimes this stuff is a trigger when we’ve been down in general, or holding anxieties in.  I’m not trying to psychanalyze you! — just looking at some ways of thinking about what happened and how it affected you today.  This reminds me of another ASAPMer’s experience of having an unexpected teary breakdown when a bird crapped on him when he was outside in a public place. Shock, humiliation, anger, etc. all collide inside us at such moments. (((((((Ron)))))))   Hope the sale proceeds without incident. xxoo Anne — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I’m so sorry, Ron.  I think you were crying from

shock and maybe loss and/or betrayal that this would happen to your RV.

Things were going well and then, out of the blue, what *appeared* to be disaster struck. Sometimes this stuff is a trigger when we’ve been down in general, or holding anxieties in.  I’m not trying to

psychanalyze you! — just looking at some ways of thinking about what happened and how it affected you today.  This reminds me of another ASAPMer’s

experience of having an unexpected teary breakdown when a bird crapped on

him when he was outside in a public place. Shock, humiliation, anger, etc.

all collide inside us at such moments. (((((((Ron)))))))   Hope the sale proceeds without incident. xxoo Anne

Thanks Anne. It was shock and anger and probably a whole lot more too. I’ve managed to settle down now. Well, one part has fallen through as far as I am concerned for one reason or another:( Oh well, I’m not under the gun to sell and that is good. Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective……

{{{Ron}}} That senseless stuff folks do can get to me too. Vashti — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

In the morning I showed my RV to an appraiser while it was parked in the storage lot. Everything was just the way it should be…great. I went home for lunch and returned an hour later approximately to show it again to another person. There was a hole in the back wall about the size of a quarter! Someone must have thrown a stone at it with such force that it broke the fiberglass and even distorted the inside of the wall. My emotions just let loose. The tears were everywhere…hell, they haven’t stopped. I just couldn’t beleive it. The only good thing about it was that it didn’t seem to bother anyone but me. They liked the rig and thought that it was in great shape for the year. Sitting here, I feel like I have been hammered into the pavement for no good reason.  CRAP, it’s only an RV….perspective, perspective, perspective…… Ron P If at first you don’t succeed, Get another lemon:) Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Question:

On March 3, I. P. Freely wrote to Tom Cular, in pertinent part: …..If you HAD "experienced the expected SEs of both the ADT and those of brachytherapy", you’d have a slew of serious SEs that would change most people’s tune significantly, according to Strum’s analyses of the ADT Syndrome and the many who agree with him.

Dr.Strum’s article on ADS (Androgen Deprivation Syndrome) can be found at: www.prostate-cancer.org/education/sidefx/Strum_ADS.html Caution: this article is six years old. There may be later information available, I haven’t checked. Sorry, I just don’t find anywhere that Dr. Strum posits that all these serious SE’s *would* (imperatively) occur. In fact, it appears that the older the patient, the less likely he is to experience, frex, hot flashes/flushes. There’s a 2001 Power Point presentation at: www.prostate-cancer.org/powerpoint/online/ADS_Strum.htm Regards, Steve J

Response:

Let’s look at it this way: Think Steve Fossett, who just landed in Kansas, is gonna ground his lifestyle with debilitating SEs just to stretch his heartbeat by a few months?

Is this the same Steve Fossett who just stretched his fuel to near fumes just for another 5 minutes of fame?  Yeah, he’s someone I want to model all my decisions after. Not really a commentary on ADT, SEs, etc.  Just a thought. — Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum

Response:

Well, maybe there is something that can be done about it. Another damn pill. This was discussed here at some length a few months ago. Anyhoo, there are medications that can be helpful. See: http://www.psa-rising.com/med/hormonal/hotflash_SSRI_mayo1004.htm I’ll soon be starting Zoloft for a different reason. We’ll see what it does for the hot flashes. Regards, Steve J

Response:

IP, I respect your opinion, your choices and your stated intent to inform "newbies" of the possible SEs of ADT, however, if you are going to advise of SEs, it does seem rational that you would also mention the SEs of other treatment protocols [ except watchful waiting, it has no side effects; only a direct effect] and please remember, opinions are like noses [or any other part you wish to reference] , everybody has one! I chose to have Lupron before and after seeds, maybe that was the right choice in my instance, maybe not, everyone is different. I experienced the expected SEs of both the ADT and those of brachytherapy, not fun, but I’m none the worse from them. I may be seeing it all wrong, but you seem to be on a crusade against any form of ADT. Those of us who have chosen radiology and/or ADT have not, to the best of my knowledge, expressed looking forward to spring, as you did, so you could trade in your wet sweat pants for shorts and just leave puddles behind you like a puppy.  I’d bet that most men with an incontinence problem see that as a SE of surgery and don’t see it as you do. OK, the hot flash has passed, the rant is over. Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The hot flashed are a nuisance to be sure, certainly not life threatining. All treatment protocols have side effects of some kind. As for the Dr. who would rather die than put up with ADT side effects, I’m glad he’s not my Dr. with that attitude towards life. Realize that he’s saying the same thing many others have said, that the handful of extra months of heartbeat ADT MAY provide are not worth the many years of highly degraded QOL many patients DO face. IMO, and that of several others here, refusing to be a total victim is a valid attitude in this and every other aspect of life. I don’t think it’s fair or respectful for the two people with the lightest SEs in my SE poll to keep telling those with FAR worse SEs that their opinions and choices are invalid. I believe it’s important for newbies making choices to see the whole spectrum of outcomes on the table, not just the lucky few, and to realize they don’t have to give up their lifestyles to PC if they so choose. Why so many of you are so upset that some of us care so strongly about a decade of high QOL compared to a few months shorter lifespan is beyond my comprehension, but it’s your choice. Now let the rest of us make ours. I.P.

Response:

Let’s look at it this way: Think Steve Fossett, who just landed in Kansas, is gonna ground his lifestyle with debilitating SEs just to stretch his heartbeat by a few months? I.P.

Response:

No, my crusade, because I’m still in the midst of finalizing that decision, is that people become aware of the whole spectrum of treatments and choices and SEs. Too many people, here and in doctors’ offices, are being told fairy tales, according to me and according to reports, clinical trials, and large panels of experts around the world. I HAVE mentioned the SEs of RT, for example, in particular the FACTS that they tend to increase with time for many years and threaten urological and bowel problems more than the other options, yet STILL see uninformed people right here denying those facts to newbies. I happen to discuss ADT SEs more because I know more about them than I do the other options, am actively trying to decide whether to accept ADT, have spent several hundred hours researching it to that end, and still see newbies being told here and across the world that adjuvant ADT adds years of bliss to our lives. Sorry, guys . . . it ain’t bliss and it ain’t years. We don’t have to let PC run or ruin our lives until it gives us no choice, and even then we STILL have choices . . . TBD. Don’t worry, folks . . . as soon as my decision is final, I hope to put all this PC crap behind me, get on with what’s left of my life, let these cancers do what the hell they want on autopilot while I measure their status quarterly, and divert my time from this soapbox to pursuits put on back burners since last summer. At that time some of you are free to tell newbies anything you wish without my reality checks based on Strum, Walsh, Harvard, Mayo, ACS, NIH, Lange, etc. And only INFORMED opinions are truly valid, whether it’s PC treatment or an election. Uninformed or misinformed opinions are just knee-jerks, and in the case of PC, can be disastrous. Sure, puddles can be an SE of surgery. I’ve never said surgery is "preferable" to other treatments; I try to deal in facts, not judgements. It’s all about informed choices based on knowledge and personal criteria. (But IMO yellow puddles beat the hell out of bloody, brown, lumpy, painful, stinky puddles any day.) You’ve been very fortunate to have minimal SEs, with just mild hot flashes and some anemia corrected by B-12, plus fatigue which must be pretty minimal as it wasn’t even mentioned until months after our initial SE description. If your experience were the norm, my decisions and my objections to the Fairy Tale would be very different. If you HAD "experienced the expected SEs of both the ADT and those of brachytherapy", you’d have a slew of serious SEs that would change most people’s tune significantly, according to Strum’s analyses of the ADT Syndrome and the many who agree with him. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IP, I respect your opinion, your choices and your stated intent to inform "newbies" of the possible SEs of ADT, however, if you are going to advise of SEs, it does seem rational that you would also mention the SEs of other treatment protocols I experienced the expected SEs of both the ADT and those of brachytherapy, not fun, but I’m none the worse from them. I may be seeing it all wrong, but you seem to be on a crusade against any form of ADT. Those of us who have chosen radiology and/or ADT have not, to the best of my knowledge, expressed looking forward to spring, as you did, so you could trade in your wet sweat pants for shorts and just leave puddles behind you like a puppy.  I’d bet that most men with an incontinence problem see that as a SE of surgery and don’t see it as you do.

Response:

My docs say your experience, although worse than average, isn’t unusual. They emphasize that they’re not talking about just heat waves, but floods of burning sweat that necessitate changing your clothes and bedding several times every day and night. The hot flashes I’ve had with nicotinic acid for tinnitus and more recently for unknown causes were nuisance-level stuff —   red face and neck, BAD sunburn level of discomfort, once every few days, for a couple of minutes. IOW, who cares, as long as the cause is understood and harmless? But yours must also dehydrate you, with all the attendant harmful effects that incurs, in addition to the obvious effects. I can’t imagine the frustration, the consternation bordering on fear, and the helpless feeling one of your hot flashes might generate if you were in any of several inescapable situations from a hot hotel room to a 3-piece suit in the boardroom to being bundled up on the ski slopes. I’ve fought for 40 years with condo and office and hotel and recovery ward and classroom managers about the heat in their facilities, and that’s WITHOUT hot flashes. I quit going to movies and restaurants altogether during the year or so they paid any attention to Jimmy Carter’s 80-degree edict. Hot flashes anywhere NEAR your level would be infinitely worse to me than a little thing like diapers or an impaired sex life. And to think that 10% of people who abandon ADT never lose their hot flashes! Thanks for your comments. They help define the realistic high bounds (I hope) of the hot flash spectrum. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My hot flashes began the day after my Lupron shot, and the first of my daily Casodex tabs. They were just two or three a day. I could live with that. A few days later, they were every 8 to 10 minutes, 24 hours a day! After a month of that, I quit the Casodex, and by the following month, they had dropped down to every 20 to 25 minutes. Being unable to get even one full hour of sleep, waking up soaking wet, every night for months, is very debilitating to say the least. Then, during the day, having to towel-off and change your clothing a dozen times throughout your work day, can affect your income. Social life? No comment. If you’ve never had intense hot flashes, you can’t imagine what it’s like. It’s NOT "just get a little warm," as two doctors had told me.

Response:

The hot flashed are a nuisance to be sure, certainly not life threatining. All treatment protocols have side effects of some kind. As for the Dr. who would rather die than put up with ADT side effects, I’m glad he’s not my Dr. with that attitude towards life.

Realize that he’s saying the same thing many others have said, that the handful of extra months of heartbeat ADT MAY provide are not worth the many years of highly degraded QOL many patients DO face. IMO, and that of several others here, refusing to be a total victim is a valid attitude in this and every other aspect of life. I don’t think it’s fair or respectful for the two people with the lightest SEs in my SE poll to keep telling those with FAR worse SEs that their opinions and choices are invalid. I believe it’s important for newbies making choices to see the whole spectrum of outcomes on the table, not just the lucky few, and to realize they don’t have to give up their lifestyles to PC if they so choose. Why so many of you are so upset that some of us care so strongly about a decade of high QOL compared to a few months shorter lifespan is beyond my comprehension, but it’s your choice. Now let the rest of us make ours. I.P.

Response:

Cancer changes our lives and our lifestyles-FOREVER. The available treatments can extend our life expectancy, but cannot restore our health and lifestyle to what it was before diagnosis.

That’s just it: my lifestyle hasn’t been changed significantly yet, especially if I can ever shed the diapers, but any of several common ADT SEs WILL destroy it. I don’t understand why several of you think it’s so unreasonable to analyze the risks. I still have SEs from Rad and 13 months of ADT and at times they are a pain in the ass, but I chose to go that route to add a few years to my time on earth.

If you find an ADT that will do that, please inform the medical profession. It’s news to them. Quitcherbitchin – make your choice based on what you have learned about the treatments available today and get on with your life.

You’re telling me and others who CARE about making QOL CHOICES that our concerns and questions don’t belong here? I.P.

Response:

At last . . . an actual, useful, non-judgemental . . . and encouraging . . . answer! Thanks, Pops. I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have hot flashes at night. They began back a few years ago but seemed to dissappear after I lost alot of weight (I also stopped snoring!). They’re back again, perhaps twice a week, since I had LRP. Sure does soak up the bedcloths! I have no problems during waking hours

Response:

Thanks, Steve. I thought your comments sounded out of character, as was mine, but then . . . aren’t our characters DEFINED by our actions? Sobering thought, isn’t it? I used to wait overnight before editing and SENDing my vitriolic responses, but got walked on too much that way and wait far less time now. You were simply in my headlights. I won’t hold yours against you if you return the courtesy, which you have done already. Thanks. I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A rather intense reply to my earlier post. He had a point, in that my post was too combative, the source being the grouchy mood I was in at the time. An SE of ADT, maybe? Or just the overall situation? Dunno. In any case, I regret having punched the "send" button and apologize to IP. Regards, Steve J

Response:

I wish they were imaginary. Only the "stuck zipper" part is hypothetical, and even that is a simplstic way of representing a very real scenario I deliberately pursue as often as possible (e.g., unzipping my dry suit out in the ocean would be suicidal). And is a hot flash in a confining scenario —   e.g., a jury box, a warm aircraft, a board meeting — a sweaty nuisance or an intolerable nightmare? Inescapable heat *** PISSES ME OFF *** to the point I’ve passed on free vacations to tropical islands including Maui, and that’s withOUT hot flashes. One prostate surgeon said he’d rather die than continue endure the SEs of his ADT, notably hot flashes. So my question is very, very practical, not academic. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Those of you who have hot flashes . . . (ka-snip imaginary horrors)

Response:

On March 2, I. P. Freely replied to me:   I wish they were imaginary.

(ka-snip) Since we’re not posting in-line, anyone who cares will have to look upthread to understand what I’m referring to. So my question is very, very practical, not academic.

Oh, for heaven’s sake. I dunno about others who maybe are unable to tolerate a nuisance. My hot flashes last about two (2) minutes, cause a bit of perspiration, disappear. Ask a ~60+ woman. I’ve never heard of a woman dying from hot flashes. Has IP? I’m not gonna die of hot flashes, and I reckon no one else will either, even if he’s a "prostate surgeon" who speaks in hyperbole, which I suppose means excitable urologist. Good lord, why all the handwringing? There are enough genuinely-life-threatening matters for us to deal with. Regards, Steve J __ "Do not compute the totality of your poultry population until all the manifestations of incubation have been entirely completed." –William Jennings Bryan (1860-1925) – American lawyer and politician.

Response:

On March 2, I. P. Freely replied to me: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish they were imaginary. So my question is very, very practical, not academic. Oh, for heaven’s sake. I dunno about others who maybe are unable to tolerate a nuisance. My hot flashes last about two (2) minutes, cause a bit of perspiration, disappear. Ask a ~60+ woman. I’ve never heard of a woman dying from hot flashes. Has IP? I’m not gonna die of hot flashes, and I reckon no one else will either, even if he’s a "prostate surgeon" who speaks in hyperbole, which I suppose means excitable urologist. Good lord, why all the handwringing? There are enough genuinely-life-threatening matters for us to deal with.

That’s why I’m asking, dammit! Some peoples say they’re a nuisance, others, including a renowned urologist and some people here, say they’re horrible and get worse with time; 10% of ADT pts can’t shed them even after ADT is stopped. Just because yours aren’t bad doesn’t mean others are so fortunate. And just because you don’t spend hundreds of hours annually in extreme exertion in a confining, insulating wet- or dry-suit in situations where you can’t just shed the suit doesn’t mean we all sit on our asses in an air conditioned room all day. "Warm" flashes — toss back the covers and lose a couple of hours of sleep until I cool down — have already cost me enough sleep to completely change my entire eating regimen 25 years ago. The several-times-a-day/night, 2-minute to one-hour, bed- and clothes-drenching hot flashes some people get w/ADT ARE worth being concerned with, in some couch-potato scenarios and sure as hell in a dry suit in 10-foot ocean waves and 40 mph wind. Sorry, but as far as I’m concerned, anyone willing to subject himself to tens of thousands of searing, soaking blasts of extreme heat just to MAYBE add a few months of more misery to the end of his life has a dramatically different set of QOL criteria than I do. I’m just trying to get a handle on the severity distribution and how disabling these things are. Sounds like your vote is for "Not much". Thanks. The rest of your crap you can keep to yourself. I wouldn’t have sent this blast months, even weeks, ago. But this PC has already robbed me of more time than anything else in my life, I’m fed up with it, and I think my Zoladex is thinking about to kick in. If you don’t like others’ earnest questions, shut up and let those of us who think PC treatment choices ARE life-threatening ask some questions about an issue —   PC treatment SEs — both the medical community and hundreds of thousands of patients agree is under-discussed. For example, I just today read yet again that radiation treatment SEs can continue to increase in number and severity more than six years after treatment. You can hide SEs from people all you want, but you’re not going to make me stop questioning SEs or objecting when newbies are told that SEs aren’t major treatment decision factors. Go tell that renowned physican his choice to quit ADT due to SEs, especially excruciating hot flashes, is "hand-wringing", then get back to us. Tell those here who made the same decision with their wives’ concurrence that their decision isn’t life-threatening. Tell it to the PC panel physician whose father’s ADT has reduced him from law-professor/serious runner to a confused couch potato (but who at least doesn’t have severe hot flashes.) I.P.

Response:

My hot flashes began the day after my Lupron shot, and the first of my daily Casodex tabs. They were just two or three a day. I could live with that. A few days later, they were every 8 to 10 minutes, 24 hours a day! After a month of that, I quit the Casodex, and by the following month, they had dropped down to every 20 to 25 minutes. Being unable to get even one full hour of sleep, waking up soaking wet, every night for months, is very debilitating to say the least. Then, during the day, having to towel-off and change your clothing a dozen times throughout your work day, can affect your income. Social life? No comment. If you’ve never had intense hot flashes, you can’t imagine what it’s like. It’s NOT "just get a little warm," as two doctors had told me. I saved these two interesting reports. Anyone here know the results?: ROCHESTER, Minn., Oct. 12, 2004 (AScribe Newswire) — A new antidepressant medication is an effective treatment for diminishing hot flashes in men who are receiving hormone therapy for prostate cancer, Mayo Clinic researchers report in the October issue of Mayo Clinic Proceedings. The five-week study followed 18 men who completed the therapy, illustrating that their hot flashes decreased from 6.2 per day to 2.5 per day. Hot flash scores, the frequency multiplied by the severity, decreased in the same period from 10.6 per day to 3 per day. "Newer antidepressants have been proven effective in reducing hot flashes in women but have not been studied in men," says Charles Loprinzi, M.D., Mayo Clinic Division of Medical Oncology and the lead author of the study. "Although hot flashes in men with prostate cancer are well documented, their treatment has not received as much attention." Hormonal treatments for male hot flashes have been studied, but there is a concern that they may affect prostate cancer growth and/or cause significant side effects. The study looked at men receiving androgen ablation therapy, also known as hormonal deprivation therapy, which is a well-established treatment for various stages of prostate cancer. The antidepressant used, paroxetine, has been used to treat mental depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder and social anxiety disorder, among others. A placebo-controlled trial had previously demonstrated that paroxetine reduced hot flashes in women. The study was conducted between August 2001 and October 2003. Men eligible for the study had to have a history of prostate cancer for which they were receiving androgen ablation therapy. Others who worked with Dr. Loprinzi on this study are: Debra Barton, R.N., Ph.D.; Lisa Carpenter; Jeff Sloan, Ph.D.; Paul Novotny; Matthew Gettman, M.D.; and Bradley Christensen, all from Mayo Clinic. … March, 2004: OHSU School of Medicine and OHSU Cancer Institute researchers are conducting the first American study to examine the effectiveness of acupuncture in diminishing hot flashes in men receiving hormonal deprivation therapy. "Acupuncture carries few side effects, has shown promising results in preliminary studies, and is associated with a feeling of relaxation and well-being in the majority of patients," Beer said. A Swedish pilot study of seven men treated with acupuncture for hot flashes due to hormonal deprivation therapy for prostate cancer shows promising results. Six of seven men completed a 10-week course of acupuncture. Frequency of hot flashes was reduced between 50% and 70% at various times during the study. No adverse effects were reported. In a follow-up to this pilot study, Beer currently is enrolling 25 patients in a phase II clinical trial of acupuncture (IRB No. 7235). Study participants must be diagnosed with prostate cancer, older than 18, receiving hormonal therapy for the duration of the study and experiencing significant hot flashes. The men will receive 14 acupuncture treatments over 10 weeks – twice weekly for 4 weeks, then once weekly for 6 additional weeks. Each treatment lasts about 30 minutes and involves the placement of 14 needles in the arms, legs, back and head. Beer and his team will evaluate the impact of acupuncture on the frequency and intensity of hot flashes, and on the insomnia and loss of vitality they often cause. Researchers also will take blood and urine samples before, during and after acupuncture to evaluate its impact on neurotransmitters in the blood and central nervous system. "We’d like to come away from this study with a better understanding of the biological changes associated with hot flashes and with acupuncture," Beer said. "For example, reduced levels of a particular neurotransmitter, serotonin, and its metabolites have been associated with hot flashes. Preliminary findings suggest that acupuncture can increase serotonin levels. We’d like to determine if the extent to which acupuncture provides relief for these men is associated with changes in their serotonin levels."

Response:

Have hot flashes at night. They began back a few years ago but seemed to dissappear after I lost alot of weight (I also stopped snoring!). They’re back again, perhaps twice a week, since I had LRP. Sure does soak up the bedcloths! I have no problems during waking hours

Response:

A rather intense reply to my earlier post. He had a point, in that my post was too combative, the source being the grouchy mood I was in at the time. An SE of ADT, maybe? Or just the overall situation? Dunno. In any case, I regret having punched the "send" button and apologize to IP. Regards, Steve J

Response:

The hot flashed are a nuisance to be sure, certainly not life threatining. All treatment protocols have side effects of some kind. As for the Dr. who would rather die than put up with ADT side effects, I’m glad he’s not my Dr. with that attitude towards life. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On March 2, I. P. Freely replied to me: I wish they were imaginary. snip That’s why I’m asking, dammit! Some peoples say they’re a nuisance, others, including a renowned urologist and some people here, say they’re horrible and get worse with time; 10% of ADT pts can’t shed them even after ADT is stopped. Just because yours aren’t bad doesn’t mean others are so fortunate. And just because you don’t spend hundreds of hours annually in extreme exertion in a confining, insulating wet- or dry-suit in situations where you can’t just shed the suit doesn’t mean we all sit on our asses in an air conditioned room all day. "Warm" flashes — toss back the covers and lose a couple of hours of sleep until I cool down — have already cost me enough sleep to completely change my entire eating regimen 25 years ago. The several-times-a-day/night, 2-minute to one-hour, bed- and clothes-drenching hot flashes some people get w/ADT ARE worth being concerned with, in some couch-potato scenarios and sure as hell in a dry suit in 10-foot ocean waves and 40 mph wind. Sorry, but as far as I’m concerned, anyone willing to subject himself to tens of thousands of searing, soaking blasts of extreme heat just to MAYBE add a few months of more misery to the end of his life has a dramatically different set of QOL criteria than I do. I’m just trying to get a handle on the severity distribution and how disabling these things are. Sounds like your vote is for "Not much". Thanks. The rest of your crap you can keep to yourself. I wouldn’t have sent this blast months, even weeks, ago. But this PC has already robbed me of more time than anything else in my life, I’m fed up with it, and I think my Zoladex is thinking about to kick in. If you don’t like others’ earnest questions, shut up and let those of us who think PC treatment choices ARE life-threatening ask some questions about an issue — PC treatment SEs — both the medical community and hundreds of thousands of patients agree is under-discussed. For example, I just today read yet again that radiation treatment SEs can continue to increase in number and severity more than six years after treatment. You can hide SEs from people all you want, but you’re not going to make me stop questioning SEs or objecting when newbies are told that SEs aren’t major treatment decision factors. Go tell that renowned physican his choice to quit ADT due to SEs, especially excruciating hot flashes, is "hand-wringing", then get back to us. Tell those here who made the same decision with their wives’ concurrence that their decision isn’t life-threatening. Tell it to the PC panel physician whose father’s ADT has reduced him from law-professor/serious runner to a confused couch potato (but who at least doesn’t have severe hot flashes.) I.P. Like the rest of us in this group, you were unfortunate enough to get Cancer. In your case, Cancer in 2 areas of the body. We have the choice to select from the available treatments, all of which come with side effects or to ignore the treatment options and the associated side effects. Cancer changes our lives and our lifestyles-FOREVER. There is not magic bullet or Barney band-aid that will make PCa go away. Generally, there is no "Cure" for Cancer. The available treatments can extend our life expectancy, but cannot restore our health and lifestyle to what it was before diagnosis. Hopefully sometime in the future, medical science will have advanced to a point where we can have our "cake and eat it too"  with respect to quality of life before, during and after treatment. Presently this is not the case. I still have SEs from Rad and 13 months of ADT and at times they are a pain in the ass, but I chose to go that route to add a few years to my time on earth. Quitcherbitchin – make your choice based on what you have learned about the treatments available today and get on with your life. Good luck with what ever choices you make. George Age – 69 8/12/02 – PSA 3.7 10/13/03 – PSA 4.69 11/11/03 – PSA 4.8 11/18/03 – Biopsy – 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 – Consult – Oncologist MD 12/16/03 – Consult – Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan – Northeast Ga Cancer Center HT – started 12/17/03 – Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26) 2/10/04 – Started – Flowmax and Megastrol Radiation – IMRT to begin 3/30/04 – 42 treatments – Completed 6/8/04 No seeds due to Prostate problems 8/30/04 – 1 yr Viadur Implant instead of 4mo Lupron 1/14/05 – Removed implant – trying intermittant HT for a while.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On March 2, I. P. Freely replied to me: I wish they were imaginary. snip That’s why I’m asking, dammit! Some peoples say they’re a nuisance, others, including a renowned urologist and some people here, say they’re horrible and get worse with time; 10% of ADT pts can’t shed them even after ADT is stopped. Just because yours aren’t bad doesn’t mean others are so fortunate. And just because you don’t spend hundreds of hours annually in extreme exertion in a confining, insulating wet- or dry-suit in situations where you can’t just shed the suit doesn’t mean we all sit on our asses in an air conditioned room all day. "Warm" flashes — toss back the covers and lose a couple of hours of sleep until I cool down — have already cost me enough sleep to completely change my entire eating regimen 25 years ago. The several-times-a-day/night, 2-minute to one-hour, bed- and clothes-drenching hot flashes some people get w/ADT ARE worth being concerned with, in some couch-potato scenarios and sure as hell in a dry suit in 10-foot ocean waves and 40 mph wind. Sorry, but as far as I’m concerned, anyone willing to subject himself to tens of thousands of searing, soaking blasts of extreme heat just to MAYBE add a few months of more misery to the end of his life has a dramatically different set of QOL criteria than I do. I’m just trying to get a handle on the severity distribution and how disabling these things are. Sounds like your vote is for "Not much". Thanks. The rest of your crap you can keep to yourself. I wouldn’t have sent this blast months, even weeks, ago. But this PC has already robbed me of more time than anything else in my life, I’m fed up with it, and I think my Zoladex is thinking about to kick in. If you don’t like others’ earnest questions, shut up and let those of us who think PC treatment choices ARE life-threatening ask some questions about an issue — PC treatment SEs — both the medical community and hundreds of thousands of patients agree is under-discussed. For example, I just today read yet again that radiation treatment SEs can continue to increase in number and severity more than six years after treatment. You can hide SEs from people all you want, but you’re not going to make me stop questioning SEs or objecting when newbies are told that SEs aren’t major treatment decision factors. Go tell that renowned physican his choice to quit ADT due to SEs, especially excruciating hot flashes, is "hand-wringing", then get back to us. Tell those here who made the same decision with their wives’ concurrence that their decision isn’t life-threatening. Tell it to the PC panel physician whose father’s ADT has reduced him from law-professor/serious runner to a confused couch potato (but who at least doesn’t have severe hot flashes.) I.P.

Like the rest of us in this group, you were unfortunate enough to get Cancer. In your case, Cancer in 2 areas of the body. We have the choice to select from the available treatments, all of which come with side effects or to ignore the treatment options and the associated side effects. Cancer changes our lives and our lifestyles-FOREVER. There is not magic bullet or Barney band-aid that will make PCa go away. Generally, there is no "Cure" for Cancer. The available treatments can extend our life expectancy, but cannot restore our health and lifestyle to what it was before diagnosis. Hopefully sometime in the future, medical science will have advanced to a point where we can have our "cake and eat it too"  with respect to quality of life before, during and after treatment. Presently this is not the case. I still have SEs from Rad and 13 months of ADT and at times they are a pain in the ass, but I chose to go that route to add a few years to my time on earth. Quitcherbitchin – make your choice based on what you have learned about the treatments available today and get on with your life. Good luck with what ever choices you make. George Age – 69 8/12/02 – PSA 3.7 10/13/03 – PSA 4.69 11/11/03 – PSA 4.8 11/18/03 – Biopsy – 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 – Consult – Oncologist MD 12/16/03 – Consult – Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan – Northeast Ga Cancer Center HT – started 12/17/03 – Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26) 2/10/04 – Started – Flowmax and Megastrol Radiation – IMRT to begin 3/30/04 – 42 treatments – Completed 6/8/04 No seeds due to Prostate problems 8/30/04 – 1 yr Viadur Implant instead of 4mo Lupron 1/14/05 – Removed implant – trying intermittant HT for a while.

Response:

Those of you who have hot flashes . . . say you get one just as the sun has come up to beat down on you while zipped into a hefty sleeping bag. Or you get a flash while hunting Christmas (that was a holiday we used to enjoy before that OTHER PC went refractory) trees in the forest zipped into a full snowmobile suit with integral hood. Or you’re out in the ocean in a cozy neoprene diving suit when a hot flash hits. And, oh yes . . . the zipper is stuck. Or you’re just sleeping in a hot bedroom (like that 74-degree sauna one person recently mentioned here) or in a comparably overheated office, and you’re hit by a hot flash. How bad would that be? Do you just quietly tell yourself, "It’s not serious, it’s just uncomfortable as hell and will pass" and ignore it? Or do you do ANYTHING to relieve it because no mantra is going to overcome its demands? What if there IS no way to get out of that zipper besides prolonged struggling or hiking or swimming, or the only relief from that hot room is out the door IF it’s cooler outdoors? What if it’s 110 degrees outside? And to top it off, you hate heat anyway . . . always have, always will. Silly hypothetical conditions? No, reality, paraphrased. Hot flashes: nuisance, or real threat to one’s mental well-being? I.P.

Response:

  Those of you who have hot flashes . . .

(ka-snip imaginary horrors) Hot flashes: nuisance, or real threat to one’s mental well-being?

Depends (no pun) upon the individual. For me, they’re a minor nuisance. Insufficient for tx. I had the opportunity, declined. However, I’ll soon be on Zoloft for a different reason and will report on whether it’s one of the antidepressants that as a SE reduce/stop hot flashes. Regards, Steve J

Response:

Silly hypothetical conditions? No, reality, paraphrased. Hot flashes: nuisance, or real threat to one’s mental well-being? I.P.

When I was diagnosed with PCa, my doc put me on estrogen and casodex to knock down the testosterone.  The pharmacy made an error and gave me three times what I was supposed to have.   A week before I was to have surgery, my doc called and said I should probably lay down as my cholesterol was 1043 — no error — one thousand forty-three, while my triglycerides were in the 5000 range. I immediately stopped taking the estrogen and casodex and a couple of days later I was cleaning my wife’s car when I noticed my heart beat was very elevated for what little exercise I was doing.  I went into the house, took a warm shower, and immediately started to sweat.  Our first thought was heart attack, so off to the ER.  They admitted me and while I lay in bed I was so very uncomfortable.  The room felt like it was 100 degrees.  Joanne turned the AC to full and got two fans to blow the air over my body.  I laid there barechested with just a bit of the sheet over my midsection for modesty’s sake.  The poor man in the next bed was freezing.  He had his blanket and mine and was still cold.  It was not very funny at the time, but I look back at it and have to chuckle.   I told my wife that when her "change" comes that I will be very understanding.   Two days after surgery and a day before my release from the hospital, the doc came in and said my cholesterol was normal. Dave

Response:

Hot Flash ? I get something like that, sometimes while waiting in  a checkout line..I begin to feel warm all over..then get the prickly itches center chest, back and  arms??? At night I wake up and seem to be in a cold sweat with no sweating..kinda clammy feeling..room is cool..male MEN o pause ? Howie

Response:

<snip Hot flashes: nuisance, or real threat to one’s mental well-being? I.P.

Oddly enough I don’t get them, but I DO get increased Peripheral Neuropathy (a Diabetes spin-off) in my both feet. Steve Jordan would say I don’t get the Flushes ‘cos I’m hanging upside down like a Bat from D/Under — Reader to complete… — Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake: — Regards — CC

Response:

Male hot flashes demand analysis, as some causes can be very serious. Andropause, whether due to aging past mid-40s (male menopause) or to ADT, are predictable and generally manageable causes. Carcinoid syndrome is a whole ‘nuther ball of worms, far more life threatening than a little old Gleason 8 T3c prostate cancer. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hot Flash ? I get something like that, sometimes while waiting in  a checkout line..I begin to feel warm all over..then get the prickly itches center chest, back and  arms??? At night I wake up and seem to be in a cold sweat with no sweating..kinda clammy feeling..room is cool..male MEN o pause ? Howie

Response:

Question:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 You told us you’re 32 and still living with your mom. (The doctor.) The other day you said you’ve been attending community college for the past 11 years. Eleven years. ELEVEN YEARS!!! Jim!!! So, as a service to your fellow ASSers, please take a moment and answer the following questions: 1) Why are you still in college? (And "community" college, at that! Jim, you’ve spent more time in college than your mom! [The doctor.]) 2) Why don’t you get a job? 3) Don’t you want your own place? 4) Don’t you want to be a productive member of society? 5) Do you want to be supported by your parents for the rest of your life? 6) Do you think a woman could ever be interested in a 32 year-old man in (community) college for 11 years that’s still living with and being supported by his parents? Be honest! —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQcm6HBHSUETdEJzmEQLQpgCg9uzvBSJmYPCl84Uu9RpYGVVJ/DQAn2c+ ZlO2t5iMmzglF7P3YSXuohRz =iR8o —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — Sadi PGP key ID: 0xDD109CE6 (sxysadi) YAAPG (Yet Another ASS Photo Gallery) http://sxysadi.spymac.net/yaapg/

Response:

>1) Why are you still in college? (And "community" college, at >that! Jim, you’ve spent more time in college than your mom! >[The doctor.])

  Psychological problems, so what?    >2) Why don’t you get a job?       Don’t want one. >3) Don’t you want your own place?

     No energy for that, too much cooking, cleaning, washing, etc….most days I’m too depressed to even bother brushing my teeth or combing my hair, why would I want some extra workload? Also, why would I want to live alone with this depression anyway? At least Mom loves me and is always there for me.. >4) Don’t you want to be a productive member of society?

    Society can kiss my ass, they’ve rejected me all my life. Screw the community! I owe them nothing because they’ve given me nothing! Let the jocks be productive members of society, they’ve received all of the benefits from it already. >5) Do you want to be supported by your parents for the rest of >your life?

     I don’t think that far ahead, right now I’m just worried about making it through the day. >6) Do you think a woman could ever be interested in a 32 >year-old man in (community) college for 11 years that’s still >living with and being supported by his parents?

      They have no idea how old I am anyway. I can get sex before getting dumped, so who cares? They also don’t know I’ve been in college for that long and I won’t tell them. I’m like Rainier, I’ve created this lie that I owned a small business that I recently sold. Are they gonna know any better??      I don’t think that far ahead…

Response:

On 22 Dec 2004 18:42:50 GMT, Jim Summers87 sayeth: >>1) Why are you still in college? (And "community" college, at >>that! Jim, you’ve spent more time in college than your mom! >>[The doctor.]) >   Psychological problems, so what?

Jim I feel like maybe this is a slight mistruth. You might be a little warped but from your posts you seem to be intelligent enough and maybe just wallowing because your scared. However I do really feel for you. >    >2) Why don’t you get a job? >       Don’t want one.

Wouldn’t it make you feel better if you had one? You could gain self-respect from being able to provide for yourself and confidence from doing a job well. As well as social interaction more peer and family respect. >>3) Don’t you want your own place? >      No energy for that, too much cooking, cleaning, washing, etc….most days > I’m too depressed to even bother brushing my teeth or combing my hair, why > would I want some extra workload? Also, why would I want to live alone with > this depression anyway? At least Mom loves me and is always there for me..

Have you not gotten any help with this? Go see your Doctor, please. At the very least get some good exercise. Living with your Mum might be good for you while you feel this way but it also enables you to continue with your current lifestyle. Maybe some changes would help. Running a house is easier than you think, especially for one. You probably just don’t know how. If you ever get your own place when you feel better try the flylady regime (it is routine based). You can pretty well keep house in 2 hours or a lot less a week. You don’t seem to have any purposeful goal to be working towards or maybe I’m just not privy to it. Get a direction. What do you want in life, for yourself not for others? >>4) Don’t you want to be a productive member of society? >     Society can kiss my ass, they’ve rejected me all my life. Screw the > community! I owe them nothing because they’ve given me nothing! Let the jocks > be productive members of society, they’ve received all of the benefits from it > already.

Do it for YOURSELF! >>5) Do you want to be supported by your parents for the rest of >>your life? >      I don’t think that far ahead, right now I’m just worried about making it > through the day.

<big hug> >>6) Do you think a woman could ever be interested in a 32 >>year-old man in (community) college for 11 years that’s still >>living with and being supported by his parents? >       They have no idea how old I am anyway. I can get sex before getting > dumped, so who cares? They also don’t know I’ve been in college for that long > and I won’t tell them. I’m like Rainier, I’ve created this lie that I owned a > small business that I recently sold. Are they gonna know any better?? >      I don’t think that far ahead…

Wishing you well.

Response:

>Jim I feel like maybe this is a slight mistruth. You might be a little >warped but from your posts you seem to be intelligent enough and maybe just >wallowing because your scared. However I do really feel for you.

  You can be highly intelligent AND still have severe emotional and psychological disorders which disrupt your ability to develop as a fully formed Adult. Even now although I have my own car and can go anywhere I want to, I DON’T..I go directly to school and come back home…..

Response:

Jim Summers87 wrote: >   You can be highly intelligent AND still have severe emotional and > psychological disorders which disrupt your ability to develop as a fully formed > Adult.

this is very true.

Response:

i leach off my parents too. i’m 21. i consider…hmmmmm…when they are 80, i’ll be changing their depends. ~balance~ but must have my own: place-job-pervert friends-etc. 11 years in community college = mental stagnation. {no wonder…} h

Response:

On 22 Dec 2004 18:42:50 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: >      They have no idea how old I am anyway. I can get sex before getting >dumped, so who cares? They also don’t know I’ve been in college for that long >and I won’t tell them. I’m like Rainier, I’ve created this lie that I owned a >small business that I recently sold. Are they gonna know any better??

Why do you even bother studying history(?) in community college? If you stay for the women, What’re your chances now when you’ve been unsuccessful for the past 11 years? formerly Raul

Response:

helen wrote: > i leach off my parents too. > i’m 21. > i consider…hmmmmm…when they are 80, > i’ll be changing their depends. > ~balance~ > but must have my own: place-job-pervert friends-etc. > 11 years in community college = mental stagnation. > {no wonder…}

well if you consider people you chat to on usenet as "friends", then I think you have the pervert-friends angle pretty well covered

Response:

>Why do you even bother studying history(?) in community college? If >you stay for the women, What’re your chances now when you’ve been >unsuccessful for the past 11 years?

  I’m not in community college anymore. My chances are very high considering now that I know exactly what attracts women. Clothes and cars!!!!

Response:

>11 years in community college = mental stagnation. >{no wonder…}

   Wrong, I learned a lot and now understand the world very clearly…before that 11 years I had no idea that everything in the world was merely about raw power and EGO and that women WHORED themselves out for the highest bidder…     When I was in High School I was still believing the media garbage about women loving men for their "personality" and for being "caring"….HOW PATHETIC….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jim Summers87 wrote: > >11 years in community college = mental stagnation. > >{no wonder…} >    Wrong, I learned a lot and now understand the world very clearly…before > that 11 years I had no idea that everything in the world was merely about raw > power and EGO and that women WHORED themselves out for the highest bidder… >     When I was in High School I was still believing the media garbage about > women loving men for their "personality" and for being "caring"….HOW > PATHETIC….

yoda: "nothing ~ you have learned." h

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sadi wrote: > —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– > Hash: SHA1 > You told us you’re 32 and still living with your mom. (The > doctor.) The other day you said you’ve been attending community > college for the past 11 years. > Eleven years. ELEVEN YEARS!!! Jim!!! > So, as a service to your fellow ASSers, please take a moment > and answer the following questions: > 1) Why are you still in college? (And "community" college, at > that! Jim, you’ve spent more time in college than your mom! > [The doctor.]) > 2) Why don’t you get a job? > 3) Don’t you want your own place? > 4) Don’t you want to be a productive member of society? > 5) Do you want to be supported by your parents for the rest of > your life? > 6) Do you think a woman could ever be interested in a 32 > year-old man in (community) college for 11 years that’s still > living with and being supported by his parents? > Be honest!

I am just wondering how it is even possible to make a 2-year degree stretch out over 11 years. Even if he only took one class per term, he should have graduated five years ago. -=Lola

Response:

>I am just wondering how it is even possible to make a 2-year degree >stretch out over 11 years. Even if he only took one class per term, he >should have graduated five years ago.

  I changed majors several times…so of course it’s possible…..

Response:

Jim Summers87 wrote: >>Jim I feel like maybe this is a slight mistruth. You might be a little >>warped but from your posts you seem to be intelligent enough and maybe just >>wallowing because your scared. However I do really feel for you. >   You can be highly intelligent AND still have severe emotional and > psychological disorders which disrupt your ability to develop as a fully formed > Adult. Even now although I have my own car and can go anywhere I want to, I > DON’T..I go directly to school and come back home…..

How on earth are you going to be able to cope when your mom dies? You need to establish some independence now so that you don’t fall apart completely when you’re on your own. -=Lola

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 On 23 Dec 2004 20:19:14 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote in post: Lola wrote: >>I am just wondering how it is even possible to make a 2-year >>degree  stretch out over 11 years. Even if he only took one >>class per term, he  should have graduated five years ago. >I changed majors several times…so of course it’s >possible…..  

5 1/2 times??? —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQctnVBHSUETdEJzmEQIc5QCgtU1TvhXLqRVQ9rCdRnHufTKAoAUAoLI6 PoqOwkY+dik49n0cT1mbETu3 =nzkc —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — Sadi PGP key ID: 0xDD109CE6 (sxysadi) YAAPG (Yet Another ASS Photo Gallery) http://sxysadi.spymac.net/yaapg/

Response:

Jim Summers87 wrote: >>I am just wondering how it is even possible to make a 2-year degree >>stretch out over 11 years. Even if he only took one class per term, he >>should have graduated five years ago. >   I changed majors several times…so of course it’s possible…..

No. They make you graduate with a gen ed degree. Whether you want to or not, they just go "OK, you have too many credits now" and you get your degree. So, what’s up with that?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sadi wrote: > —–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– > Hash: SHA1 > On 23 Dec 2004 20:19:14 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim > Summers87) wrote in post: > Lola wrote: >>>I am just wondering how it is even possible to make a 2-year >>>degree  stretch out over 11 years. Even if he only took one >>>class per term, he  should have graduated five years ago. >>I changed majors several times…so of course it’s >>possible…..   > 5 1/2 times???

I’m thinking he doesn’t attend college at all, because what a community college does with someone who can’t pick a major and lingers on forever is adds up all their credits and picks a degree for them, whether they like it or not. That’s pretty much what a gen ed degree was invented for.

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:26:47 -0800, Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote in post: >I’m thinking he doesn’t attend college at all, because what a >community  college does with someone who can’t pick a major >and lingers on forever  is adds up all their credits and picks >a degree for them, whether they  like it or not. That’s pretty >much what a gen ed degree was invented for.  

Busted. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQct6OBHSUETdEJzmEQKoeQCeKtjKH9cXlpnxHEwOXP5dEgkfnkQAoNJs WthdblSCJHnB34R22pvV5eAM =YfFz —–END PGP SIGNATURE—– — Sadi PGP key ID: 0xDD109CE6 (sxysadi) YAAPG (Yet Another ASS Photo Gallery) http://sxysadi.spymac.net/yaapg/

Response:

On 22 Dec 2004 21:47:40 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: >>Jim I feel like maybe this is a slight mistruth. You might be a little >>warped but from your posts you seem to be intelligent enough and maybe just >>wallowing because your scared. However I do really feel for you. >  You can be highly intelligent AND still have severe emotional and >psychological disorders which disrupt your ability to develop as a fully formed >Adult. Even now although I have my own car and can go anywhere I want to, I >DON’T..I go directly to school and come back home…..

Is there anywhere that you would like to go? Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– Welcome to alt.support.shyness, also known as The *PAIN* Club.                                        - Solitary Soul

Response:

>Busted.

   Nonsense, I’m now a Junior at a major university in the South.

Response:

>I’m thinking he doesn’t attend college at all, because what a community >college does with someone who can’t pick a major and lingers on forever >is adds up all their credits and picks a degree for them, whether they >like it or not. That’s pretty much what a gen ed degree was invented for.

    Nonsense, community college lets you go there indefinitely. They just want your money. There are plenty of older students there who are working full time so they take FOREVER to graduate. You obviously don’t know anything about how community colleges work..     Also, you don’t pay attention well either…I don’t go to community college anymore, I’m at a major university now in Upper Level courses and I got accepted into the school EASILY.

Response:

>No. They make you graduate with a gen ed degree.

  They don’t make you do anything….Where are you getting this nonsense? I was never told a damn thing about that…I was also later accepted into a major university with my transcript record quite easily…..

Response:

>Is there anywhere that you would like to go?

   Not really, I order my books online.

Response:

On 22 Dec 2004 18:42:50 GMT, jimsummer…@aol.com (Jim Summers87) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>1) Why are you still in college? (And "community" college, at >>that! Jim, you’ve spent more time in college than your mom! >>[The doctor.]) >  Psychological problems, so what? >   >2) Why don’t you get a job? >      Don’t want one. >>3) Don’t you want your own place? >     No energy for that, too much cooking, cleaning, washing, etc….most days >I’m too depressed to even bother brushing my teeth or combing my hair, why >would I want some extra workload? Also, why would I want to live alone with >this depression anyway? At least Mom loves me and is always there for me..

My mother was stricken with ovarian cancer, and died 7 months after she had been properly diagnosed. What would you do if your mother were to die quite suddenly? >>4) Don’t you want to be a productive member of society? >    Society can kiss my ass, they’ve rejected me all my life. Screw the >community! I owe them nothing because they’ve given me nothing! Let the jocks >be productive members of society, they’ve received all of the benefits from it >already. >>5) Do you want to be supported by your parents for the rest of >>your life? >     I don’t think that far ahead, right now I’m just worried about making it >through the day.

Do you want to live like this for the rest of your life? >>6) Do you think a woman could ever be interested in a 32 >>year-old man in (community) college for 11 years that’s still >>living with and being supported by his parents? >      They have no idea how old I am anyway. I can get sex before getting >dumped, so who cares?

I wouldn’t count on that if I were you. Even if you DID manage to get a girl to have sex with you, is that all you want? Will you then never have – nor want – sex again? > They also don’t know I’ve been in college for that long >and I won’t tell them. I’m like Rainier, I’ve created this lie that I owned a >small business that I recently sold. Are they gonna know any better?? >     I don’t think that far ahead…

It’s time you did. The future can hold some rude surprises for those who don’t. Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– Welcome to alt.support.shyness, also known as The *PAIN* Club.                                        - Solitary Soul

Response:

Question:

Yesterday was relaxing.  I went to a friend’s house for dinner and we watched a football game and part of "Clear and Present Danger" with Harrison Ford.  I used to own that movie on VHS.  We also played some video games. I tried to fix his computer.  I installed Adaware and Spybot and cleaned out the spyware.  I then used NOD32 to find a trojan and delete it. Both of his computers are older.  One is Windows 95 and one is Windows ME. m.

Response:

so when did you get drunk?  : ) s

Response:

yesterday, i  pawned my ruby ring and when to best buy looking for a song i dont know the name of it, but it is by the violent femmes , and the video of it he is watching tv and all these beautiful woman are trying to attract him, he is annoyed, he just wants to watch tv and he is singing all i want is you and then something about getting closer that song is in my head because i am feeling that way about sammy but i couldnt find it so i bought alice coopers greatest hits then i went to wherehouse music used cd dept. looking for it and could not find it so i bought the verve’s a storm in heaven for $8.65 what a steal i call that a bargain , the best i ever had ; ) so i went home and listened 1st to a storm in heaven you gotta hear this cd if you love rock music i was so extatic i was jumping up and down and then i listened to alice wow what a night i so love alice cooper i had such a crush in high school it was not pretty LOL anyway i as singing along and dancing to my favorite song and then i got online then i could not sleep so i took eventually 1.5 mg risperdol and finally slept but i woke up today sore from dancing and with stiff muscles from the risperdol

Response:

Question:

>for his/her ad hominem attacks on people for *political* reasons?  All >you liberal bitches go out of your way to criticize a conservative >when they express their political views, but no mention of the asshole >comments Eeire is posting now.

i’m a "liberal asshole" and i like eerie. >By the way, if people are so "outraged" about Bush, then how come he’s >leading in the polls?

it’s really a crime. – k i t z – cry me a river and row me a boat, bitches. http://www.livejournal.com/users/kitznegari coming soon: http://forkflungpork.willkill.us

Response:

eerie said >Because  conservatives are all lying whores.  Or maybe it’s just because >Bush is the most unpopular president since Nixon.  (Maybe more so, if you >count the Muslim world.)

I’d like to submit that everyone is a lying whore, and that Bush is very unpopular, especially among certain communities with good ‘bullshit’ detectors. — http://www.cassowarybuttons.com <— Buttons for everyone. My blogs: http://buttonmakersball.blogspot.com <–button making http://animeg.blogspot.com <–rants on everything

Response:

"PC" <problemch…@mail.com> wrote in message

news:11cdc7cd.0408301558.1582c53b@posting.google.com… > for his/her ad hominem attacks on people for *political* reasons?

Because he was doing the same thing months ago, so I killfiled him back then.  Honestly, this is a shyness group.  As far as I’m concerned, he’s trolling. > All > you liberal bitches go out of your way to criticize a conservative > when they express their political views,

Nah.  You’re just making this up. > but no mention of the asshole > comments Eeire is posting now.

Do you feel the need to mention the smell every time you go to the bathroom? When you step outside in the morning, do you comment on the color of the sky?  Do people where you live stop and point it out when things thrown into the air fall back down again? > Solitary Soul?  I know you’re right-wing, but you went out of your way > to criticize me when I attacked someone for posting liberal bullshit- > why don’t you respond to Eeire?

Give him time.  It takes awhile to write out thousands of lines of repetitive, specious logic intricately interwoven with elaborate attempts to mask personal attacks in pseudointellectual rhetoric.  Rush him, and I have it on good authority all you’ll get out of him is "Duh". > You ACT like a liberal pussy.

This from the guy begging everyone else to fight his battles for him?  I guess the big bad Eerie Rodent’s too much for you to handle alone.

Response:

>for his/her ad hominem attacks on people for *political* reasons?  All >you liberal bitches go out of your way to criticize a conservative >when they express their political views, but no mention of the asshole >comments Eeire is posting now. >Fallout, what do you say to that?  You’re not being a hypocrite, are >you? >Solitary Soul?  I know you’re right-wing, but you went out of your way >to criticize me when I attacked someone for posting liberal bullshit- >why don’t you respond to Eeire?  You ACT like a liberal pussy. >By the way, if people are so "outraged" about Bush, then how come he’s >leading in the polls?

  Those polls represent a small part of voting population and has a certain rate of error…like some freaks going and voting for someone many times.   Well the actual recount numbers in florida in last election were quite suspicious…so I wonder if the online polls are any good. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The only ones that are outraged are liberal pussies.

Response:

"The Babaloughesian" <m…@privacy.net> wrote in news:2pid59Fl6nv9U1@uni- berlin.de: > Because he was doing the same thing months ago, so I killfiled him back > then.  Honestly, this is a shyness group.  As far as I’m concerned, he’s > trolling.

Oh dearie me.  Someone wave a hankie in my face, I feel a fainting spell approaching.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -problemch…@mail.com (PC) wrote in message <news:11cdc7cd.0408301558.1582c53b@posting.google.com>… > for his/her ad hominem attacks on people for *political* reasons?  All > you liberal bitches go out of your way to criticize a conservative > when they express their political views, but no mention of the asshole > comments Eeire is posting now. > Fallout, what do you say to that?  You’re not being a hypocrite, are > you? > Solitary Soul?  I know you’re right-wing, but you went out of your way > to criticize me when I attacked someone for posting liberal bullshit- > why don’t you respond to Eeire?  You ACT like a liberal pussy. > By the way, if people are so "outraged" about Bush, then how come he’s > leading in the polls?  The only ones that are outraged are liberal > pussies.

Excellent Point— now read the greatest speach of the last 40 years!!!  News Home – Help Text of Rudolph Giuliani’s RNC Speech Mon Aug 30,10:44 PM ET By The Associated Press The text of former New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (news – web sites)’s speech as prepared for delivery Monday at the Republican National Convention:

Question:

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** If you are young, male, good looking and like to party lets hook up and have a "good time".  Don’t worry about distance, I can come to you.  Will bring lots of "partyables". Give me a call (620) 402-0116 Sauger ebay id: ticklesyourfancy  *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                       http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download – 19 Seperate Servers – 90,000 groups – Uncensored

Response:

U SICK BASTARD

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** If you are young, male, good looking and like to party lets hook up and have a "good time".  Don’t worry about distance, I can come to you.  Will bring lots of "partyables". Give me a call (620) 402-0116 Sauger ebay id: ticklesyourfancy *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                      http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download – 19 Seperate Servers – 90,000 groups – Uncensored

Response:

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****   U SICK BASTARD Yes but the sick bastard is a nick spoofer and not the real Sauger. The spoofer is none other that James Edwards the owner of Securtron.net  *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                       http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download – 19 Seperate Servers – 90,000 groups – Uncensored

Response:

Go visit Jackson’s Estate you’l find all you want there you fucking Mental Case.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – U SICK BASTARD **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** If you are young, male, good looking and like to party lets hook up and have a "good time".  Don’t worry about distance, I can come to you.  Will bring lots of "partyables". Give me a call (620) 402-0116 Sauger ebay id: ticklesyourfancy *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                      http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download – 19 Seperate Servers – 90,000 groups – Uncensored

Response:

U SICK BASTARD **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** If you are young, male, good looking and like to party lets hook up and have a "good time".  Don’t worry about distance, I can come to you.  Will bring lots of "partyables". Give me a call

I assume that was the phone number of somebodies worst enemy or ex-boyfriend or ex-boss or whatever.

Response:

I assume that was the phone number of somebodies worst enemy or ex-boyfriend or ex-boss or whatever.

My favorite was the time this guy posted some hard core kiddy porn using his ex-girlfriend’s AOL ID, and including a message that she and the kids were available for fun and games and gave her real name, address and phone number.  Needless to say, it wasn’t long before her phone line was jammed by people either complaining or hoping to score. Unfortunately for him, some readers of the NG took exception to his stunt, and knew how to track him down.  Within hours, they had posted his real name, address, phone number, employer’s name, former employer’s name and some other assorted goodies, plus reported him to his local law enforcement. I imagine he was rather shocked when they knocked on the door with a warrant to look at the pix on his computer. — Outgoing mail is certified bollocks

Response:

Question:

He said the pharmacy will dispose of them for me.  Well I think they should have to buy them back from me

Back when I was trying a different ssri every month or so, I started having the first prescription filled just enough for a week or so. Luckily now most of my meds are generic and the one that isn’t, and is very expensive, I keep bugging my Dr. for free samples. Tono — The charter is available at:

Question:

Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City?

He has never been arrested for robbery. Robert Lederman has had his fanny tossed into jail many times because he was trying to steal people’s money!

He was never convicted of robbery, in fact he has never been found guilty of anything in a NYC court, unlike the Ghouliani administation, which was found GUILTY of COMTEMPT OF COURT a record number of times. Lederman tries to sell stuff that belongs in dumpsters as street art, which is a huge laugh at anybody dumb enough to actually let Lederman rob them.

What are you selloing here? Smells like a load of bullshit. Robert Lederman is a sad joke in New York City.

He is a true FREEDOM FIGHTER. You are a joke. — http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html "Bubba got a blowjob, BU$H screwed us all!" – Slim http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms George "The AWOL President" Bush: http://www.awolbush.com/ WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm VOTE HIM OUT! November 4, 2004

Response:

"Bill March"

Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City? He has never been arrested for robbery.

And Robert Lederman never even posted to this thread! This crazy troll is under the delusion that Freedom Fighter is Robert Lederman. Not so. Robert Lederman has had his fanny tossed into jail many times because he was trying to steal people’s money! He was never convicted of robbery, in fact he has never been found guilty of anything in a NYC court, unlike the Ghouliani administation, which was found GUILTY of COMTEMPT OF COURT a record number of times.

And Ghouliani has likewise been found in violation of peoples’ Constitutional rights, mostly First Amendment, well OVER TWENTY TIMES. Lederman tries to sell stuff that belongs in dumpsters as street art, which is a huge laugh at anybody dumb enough to actually let Lederman rob them. What are you selloing here? Smells like a load of bullshit.

It is – the rantings of a mentally ill troll. Robert Lederman is a sad joke in New York City. He is a true FREEDOM FIGHTER. You are a joke.

Perhaps someday some sociologist or psychologist will write a book explaning why so many crazy people vent their manias on Usenet. I think it has something to do with the fact they are hateful misathropes, but are too cowardly to attack others face to face. Usenet allows them to spew their venom with anonymity and impunity.

Response:

"Bill March" Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City? He has never been arrested for robbery.

The people of New York City know all about Lederman’s many arrests for trying to rob people. Robert Lederman is an idiot!

Response:

Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City? Robert Lederman has had his fanny tossed into jail many times because he was trying to steal people’s money! Lederman tries to sell stuff that belongs in dumpsters as street art, which is a huge laugh at anybody dumb enough to actually let Lederman rob them. Robert Lederman is a sad joke in New York City.

     Mr. Lederman has never been arrested nor convicted in NYC for any crime, let alone robbery.  The bit about selling stuff that belongs in dumpsters  is not true either but if he or anyone else did decide to sell it I dare you to show me a law that says they can’t. The city is happy with Lederman.

Response:

    Mr. Lederman has never been arrested nor convicted in NYC for any crime, let alone robbery.  The bit about selling stuff that belongs in dumpsters  is not true either but if he or anyone else did decide to sell it I dare you to show me a law that says they can’t. The city is happy with Lederman.

Unfortunately Mr.  Lederman has been arrested, but as you point out never convicted.  A victim of a mayor who did not care for anyones rights but his own.   Alex

Response:

< snip      Mr. Lederman has never been arrested nor convicted in NYC for any crime, let alone robbery.  The bit about selling stuff that belongs in dumpsters  is not true either but if he or anyone else did decide to sell it I dare you to show me a law that says they can’t. The city is happy with Lederman.

Mr. Lederman had nothing to do with this thread. "Bill March" is just another fake name used by the KKKrazy KKKon$ervative troll that deludedly believes "Freedom Fighter" is Robert Lederman. Killfile this troll and all the false names he uses – don’t waste your time trying to reason with an obvious nutcase.

Response:

VERIZON IS HARASSING PEOPLE! Do you get what appear to be hangup crank calls? Dial *69 to trace the source. If you get (309) 820-7777, you are being HARASSED BY VERIZON!

Why do you keep *69-ing?  Let it go.  Better yet, get caller ID. Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

Response:

There is a loophole in the New York State law that bans telemarketers from calling you if you are on the state "do not call" list. If you already do business with them, they can call you all they want.

Nope. You are wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. But why should today be any different? I’m amazed you manage to type without someone holding your fingers for you. — Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Response:

There is a loophole in the New York State law that bans telemarketers from calling you if you are on the state "do not call" list. If you already do business with them, they can call you all they want. Nope. You are wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong. But why should today be any different? I’m amazed you manage to type without someone holding your fingers for you.

That loophole does exist. Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

Response:

That loophole does exist.

nope. They (companies you’ve dealt with) are allowed initial contact even if you’re on the do not call list. But you can then tell them to go away. Note that they’re still allowed to do safety and billing and similar calls, which gives them some leeway. But they’re not supposed to call you with a "one week only! Free caller ID if you sign up RIGHT NOW" stuff. excerpting from the FTC: "A telemarketer or seller may call a consumer with whom it has an established business relationship for up to 18 months after the consumer’s last purchase, delivery, or payment – even if the consumer’s number is on the National Do Not Call Registry "One caveat: if a consumer asks a company not to call, the company may not call, even if there is an established business relationship. Indeed, a company may not call a consumer – regardless of whether the consumer’s number is on the registry – if the consumer has asked to be put on the company’s own do not call list         https://www.donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQBusiness.aspx — Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Response:

There is a loophole in the New York State law that bans telemarketers from calling you if you are on the state "do not call" list. If you already do business with them, they can call you all they want. Nope. You are wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong.

It takes a true asshole to tell someone they are wrong when they are not, and in addition fail to correct what they believe is wrong in their statement. But why should today be any different?

Yes, you are an asshole every day, and today is no exception.

Response:

It takes a true asshole to tell someone they are wrong when they are not, and in addition fail to correct what they believe is wrong in their statement.

You might try looking into a mirror. Or are you going to continue acting like a bratty five year old? You are wrong, wrong, wrongitty wrong. And you’re no longer even worth the entertainment value. Bye. — Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Response:

That loophole does exist. nope. They (companies you’ve dealt with) are allowed initial contact even if you’re on the do not call list. But you can then tell them to go away. Note that they’re still allowed to do safety and billing and similar calls, which gives them some leeway. But they’re not supposed to call you with a "one week only! Free caller ID if you sign up RIGHT NOW" stuff.

FF isn’t getting sales calls. excerpting from the FTC: "A telemarketer or seller may call a consumer with whom it has an established business relationship for up to 18 months after the consumer’s last purchase, delivery, or payment – even if the consumer’s number is on the National Do Not Call Registry "One caveat: if a consumer asks a company not to call, the company may not call, even if there is an established business relationship. Indeed, a company may not call a consumer – regardless of whether the consumer’s number is on the registry – if the consumer has asked to be put on the company’s own do not call list

This excerpt doesn’t say how long a company has to take you off their lists once you say you want off. Phil visit the New York City Homebrewers Guild website: http://www.homebrewersguild.org

Response:

That loophole does exist. nope. They (companies you’ve dealt with) are allowed initial contact even if you’re on the do not call list. But you can then tell them to go away.

This is true, but why didn’t you say so in the first place, rather than act like an asshole? I was NOT wrong in stating they can call you, but I simply omitted this additional information. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Note that they’re still allowed to do safety and billing and similar calls, which gives them some leeway. But they’re not supposed to call you with a "one week only! Free caller ID if you sign up RIGHT NOW" stuff. excerpting from the FTC: "A telemarketer or seller may call a consumer with whom it has an established business relationship for up to 18 months after the consumer’s last purchase, delivery, or payment – even if the consumer’s number is on the National Do Not Call Registry "One caveat: if a consumer asks a company not to call, the company may not call, even if there is an established business relationship. Indeed, a company may not call a consumer – regardless of whether the consumer’s number is on the registry – if the consumer has asked to be put on the company’s own do not call list https://www.donotcall.gov/FAQ/FAQBusiness.aspx

In view of the above, Verizon IS IN VIOLATION of these rules if they do not IMMEDIATELY cease telemarketing calls when requested to do so. And they DON’T!

Response:

It takes a true asshole to tell someone they are wrong when they are not, and in addition fail to correct what they believe is wrong in their statement. You might try looking into a mirror. Or are you going to continue acting like a bratty five year old?

Why would I want to imitate the likes of you? You are wrong, wrong, wrongitty wrong. And you’re no longer even worth the entertainment value.

Danny Boy, you’ve earned yourself a place beside the likes of "Valkenheiser" and other such sickos in my killfile. I will not waste my time with the likes of you, a cowardly asshole that sits safely behind his computer keyboard and spews unnecessary insults at his betters, people he would never dare to confront face to face. PLONK!

Response:

Why would I want to imitate the likes of you?

do you enjoy being the laughingstock of millions? I guess so. Bye. — Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Response:

Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City? Robert Lederman has had his fanny tossed into jail many times because he was trying to steal people’s money! Lederman tries to sell stuff that belongs in dumpsters as street art, which is a huge laugh at anybody dumb enough to actually let Lederman rob them. Robert Lederman is a sad joke in New York City.

Response:

Robert Lederman is complaining that some business is harassing people? How about Robert Lederman trying to rob people on the streets of New York City? Robert Lederman has had his fanny tossed into jail many times because he was trying to steal people’s money! Lederman tries to sell stuff that belongs in dumpsters as street art, which is a huge laugh at anybody dumb enough to actually let Lederman rob them.

I heard Plugger bought some of that trash once. Robert Lederman is a sad joke in New York City.

So is Plugger. Mebbe that’s why they like to suck each other’s dicks. — Freddie D. ‘fag’ Shorts I’m loud and I’m proud. I’m gay and I like it that way! Another proud buttplug owner. Honk if yer horny! I support Gay Pride! The Ramrod rocks! Kerry sux! Wanna hire me for web site development? I’m way under-employed! FS Newssite Inc. 101 West 23rd St. Suite 2237, New York, NY, 10011 On second thoughts, don’t bother. Just sign me up for subscriptions. I like to steal copyrighted material. Check out my current web sites – http://www.orwellian.org http://www.miscstuff.org http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/ I’m really proud of this – http://Frederick.Shorts.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php http://www.plugger.info http://www.pluggers.com/daily/ Hay! My kinda place – http://www.gaylordhotels.com/

Response:

VERIZON IS HARASSING PEOPLE! Do you get what appear to be hangup crank calls? Dial *69 to trace the source. If you get (309) 820-7777, you are being HARASSED BY VERIZON! There is a loophole in the New York State law that bans telemarketers from calling you if you are on the state "do not call" list. If you already do business with them, they can call you all they want. Verizon has automatic telemarketing dialers that do this. I have received as many as 3 such calls a day. Should you call to complain, they tell you that it takes from THIRTY TO SIXTY DAYS to stop these calls from being made to you. I found that unacceptable, so I complained to the New York State Public Service Commission at (800) 342-3377. They contacted a Verizon official that tried to expedite my removal from their calling list. The best they could promise was that it will take TEN DAYS until these harassing hangup calls will stop! Meanwhile, they charge 75 cents for every use of *69! And they wonder why people don’t pay bills and vandalize Verizon pay phones!

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -billybee…@juno.com (William) writes: > "Tsam Nami" <tsam-n…@tidal.wav> wrote in message <news:h_vlc.4453$Hs1.4434@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>… > > "JWB" <tom124…@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot > > com> wrote in message news:dNjlc.56189$Nn4.12173205@twister.nyc.rr.com… > > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > > news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… > > > > Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of > > > > Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are > > > > just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured > > > > — one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton > > > > was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these > > > > guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local > > > > driver.  They all have families, kids. > > > > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > > > > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > > > > dairy farm to go over there. > > > He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million > >  to > > > go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. > > > apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel > >  differently > > > about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess. > > One of the few local jobs fitting my skills > > that I deliberately did not send a resume > > was one with a subcontractor supporting > > the Army Rangers based at Fort Lewis. > > They wanted a web site developer > > to travel with their deployments. > His dairy farm was bankrupt.  He was trying to save it. > And most of the guys getting killed over there are probably making > less than 20K/year. > Either go or don’t go, but quit your whining while you enjoy the > freedom those serving provide to you.

I’m sure many soldiers are in the army for selfless reasons.  But what has happened in Iraq (and this is not the fault of our soldiers) has made us _less_ safe, and only enriched Haliburton and its stockholders. So I’ll whine about it all I want, thank you.

Response:

"Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message

news:109bms3cct9dbf7@corp.supernews.com… > I’m flagging this to reply to tomorrow. >   Duty calls.

greeeeaaaat – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> amy > JWB wrote: > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > news:109bja1591hc7db@corp.supernews.com… > >>JWB wrote: > >>But $2.50 is ridiculous for diesel and California IS protesting — good > >>for them!  They aren’t protesting to the government.  THey are locking > >>down freeways of commuters. > > $2.50 *isn’t* ridiculous. Take what it cost 20 years ago, add inflation, and > > see what you get. > > and in all honesty, if they are locking down freeways, they desrve to be > > hauled off to jail and lose their rigs. Period. Nobody has the right to > > block people trying to get to work to make their point. They will just be > > vilified. > >>Okay, you paid 1.50.  You ARE a young’un.  What were your mpg?  I’ve > >>already told you freight rates haven’t risen much since the 70’s and > >>fuel has about quadrupled right now. > > Then who’s fault is that? Who’s running loads for lousy pay? Simple supply > > and demand. How come pipefitters in NY can negotiate raises and truckers > > nationwide can’t? > >>Luckily, we don’t run California BUT almost wish we were so we could > >>protest and rally, too. > > It won’t do any good. Use that energy to look for another profession.

Response:

"JWB" <tom124…@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -com> wrote in message news:dNjlc.56189$Nn4.12173205@twister.nyc.rr.com… > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… > > Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of > > Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are > > just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured > > — one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton > > was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these > > guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local > > driver.  They all have families, kids. > > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > > dairy farm to go over there. > He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million to > go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. > apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel differently > about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess.

One of the few local jobs fitting my skills that I deliberately did not send a resume was one with a subcontractor supporting the Army Rangers based at Fort Lewis. They wanted a web site developer to travel with their deployments. — Tsam

Response:

"William" <billybee…@juno.com> wrote in message

news:1e4e3692.0405031426.550adee9@posting.google.com… > "Tsam Nami" <tsam-n…@tidal.wav> wrote in message

<news:h_vlc.4453$Hs1.4434@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>… > > "JWB" <tom124…@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot > > com> wrote in message

news:dNjlc.56189$Nn4.12173205@twister.nyc.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > > news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… > > > > Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of > > > > Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are > > > > just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured > > > > — one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton > > > > was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these > > > > guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local > > > > driver.  They all have families, kids. > > > > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > > > > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > > > > dairy farm to go over there. > > > He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million > >  to > > > go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. > > > apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel > >  differently > > > about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess. > > One of the few local jobs fitting my skills > > that I deliberately did not send a resume > > was one with a subcontractor supporting > > the Army Rangers based at Fort Lewis. > > They wanted a web site developer > > to travel with their deployments. > His dairy farm was bankrupt.  He was trying to save it.

That matters how? > And most of the guys getting killed over there are probably making > less than 20K/year. > Either go or don’t go, but quit your whining while you enjoy the > freedom those serving provide to you.

who’s wining? And who said anything about soldiers? The discussion is a civilian putting himself in a deadly position chasing the dollar.

Response:

"JWB" <tom124…@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot com> wrote in message news:Erklc.35521$mX.12330627@twister.nyc.rr.com… > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:109bja1591hc7db@corp.supernews.com… > > JWB wrote: > Then who’s fault is that? Who’s running loads for lousy pay? Simple supply > and demand. How come pipefitters in NY can negotiate raises and truckers > nationwide can’t?

NY pipefitters work for Tony Soprano?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Tsam Nami" <tsam-n…@tidal.wav> wrote in message <news:h_vlc.4453$Hs1.4434@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>… > "JWB" <tom124…@servo3.com actually, my e-mail is jwb3333 at excite dot > com> wrote in message news:dNjlc.56189$Nn4.12173205@twister.nyc.rr.com… > > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > > news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… > > > Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of > > > Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are > > > just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured > > > — one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton > > > was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these > > > guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local > > > driver.  They all have families, kids. > > > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > > > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > > > dairy farm to go over there. > > He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million >  to > > go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. > > apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel >  differently > > about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess. > One of the few local jobs fitting my skills > that I deliberately did not send a resume > was one with a subcontractor supporting > the Army Rangers based at Fort Lewis. > They wanted a web site developer > to travel with their deployments.

His dairy farm was bankrupt.  He was trying to save it. And most of the guys getting killed over there are probably making less than 20K/year. Either go or don’t go, but quit your whining while you enjoy the freedom those serving provide to you.

Response:

"Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message

news:109bja1591hc7db@corp.supernews.com… > JWB wrote: > But $2.50 is ridiculous for diesel and California IS protesting — good > for them!  They aren’t protesting to the government.  THey are locking > down freeways of commuters.

$2.50 *isn’t* ridiculous. Take what it cost 20 years ago, add inflation, and see what you get. and in all honesty, if they are locking down freeways, they desrve to be hauled off to jail and lose their rigs. Period. Nobody has the right to block people trying to get to work to make their point. They will just be vilified. > Okay, you paid 1.50.  You ARE a young’un.  What were your mpg?  I’ve > already told you freight rates haven’t risen much since the 70’s and > fuel has about quadrupled right now.

Then who’s fault is that? Who’s running loads for lousy pay? Simple supply and demand. How come pipefitters in NY can negotiate raises and truckers nationwide can’t? > Luckily, we don’t run California BUT almost wish we were so we could > protest and rally, too.

It won’t do any good. Use that energy to look for another profession.

Response:

I’m flagging this to reply to tomorrow.   Duty calls. amy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JWB wrote: > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:109bja1591hc7db@corp.supernews.com… >>JWB wrote: >>But $2.50 is ridiculous for diesel and California IS protesting — good >>for them!  They aren’t protesting to the government.  THey are locking >>down freeways of commuters. > $2.50 *isn’t* ridiculous. Take what it cost 20 years ago, add inflation, and > see what you get. > and in all honesty, if they are locking down freeways, they desrve to be > hauled off to jail and lose their rigs. Period. Nobody has the right to > block people trying to get to work to make their point. They will just be > vilified. >>Okay, you paid 1.50.  You ARE a young’un.  What were your mpg?  I’ve >>already told you freight rates haven’t risen much since the 70’s and >>fuel has about quadrupled right now. > Then who’s fault is that? Who’s running loads for lousy pay? Simple supply > and demand. How come pipefitters in NY can negotiate raises and truckers > nationwide can’t? >>Luckily, we don’t run California BUT almost wish we were so we could >>protest and rally, too. > It won’t do any good. Use that energy to look for another profession.

Response:

In article <109bfop3t3ho…@corp.supernews.com>, Amy D wrote: > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > dairy farm to go over there.

I took a taxi once, and my driver was kind of an interesting guy. He was black, regularly plays chess competitions, and a former marine. He says he hated the time he spent in the military. He has a flawless driving record and was offered a tax free $100,000 job driving trucks in Iraq, which he refused on safety grounds as well as moral grounds (did not like that war). That’s all according to him, and for all I know, he could be making up a lot — I would not know. But, he sounded authentic and knowledgeable about things he should know if his background matches his description. > Now I’m not a radical consiracy theorist but think about it — the > government is starving out our truckdrivers with fuel up to $2.50 a > gallon in California.  All of California is protesting.  GOOD FOR THEM!! >   But think of it on a political level…..we are occupying an oil-rich > company.  What is wrong with this picture??  Halliburton is offering > them $100,000 tax free.   During our worst years California didn’t go > much over $2.00 for fuel.  Since they are shutting down this week the > East Coast can pretty much not count on their strawberries.  I don’t > necessarily believe all this but I can damn sure tell you SOMETHING IS > WRONG.  But I CAN tell you for fact that California is shutting down big > time and I can email you pictures of rallies, strikes, protests, > articles, if you would like. > For those totally "shipping stupid" a truck gets on average 6 mpg.

That’s probably on a good asphalt road. Here’s what I am thinking. A fuel tanker brings, say, 8 tons of fuel. A convoy of 10 vehicles, at 1 liter pr kilometer per vehicle, for a round trip of 500 km there and 500 km back, burns 10,000 liters of fuel. So, at least 1-1.2 tankers in that convoy are used simply to get the convoy moved. If it is accompanied by tanks, which are fuel hogs, it is even worse. So, a typical convoy needs 1 to 1.2 trucks to simply carry the fuel for itself. Kind of expensive. Yesterday, one such convoy was burned (many vehicles) in southern Iraq. As I said, the US is being clusterfucked in Iraq, and we cannot claim to be completely innocent and faultless. No one invited us there. ————————————————————————— –   @ @ @    Please forgive my typos as my right hand is injured.    @ @ @ char*p="char*p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34); }                 "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -JWB wrote: > "Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message > news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… >>Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of >>Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are >>just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured >>– one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton >>was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these >>guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local >>driver.  They all have families, kids. >>They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ >>tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his >>dairy farm to go over there. > He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million to > go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. > apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel differently > about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess. >>Now I’m not a radical consiracy theorist but think about it — the >>government is starving out our truckdrivers with fuel up to $2.50 a >>gallon in California.  All of California is protesting.  GOOD FOR THEM!! >>  But think of it on a political level…..we are occupying an oil-rich >>company.  What is wrong with this picture??  Halliburton is offering >>them $100,000 tax free.   During our worst years California didn’t go >>much over $2.00 for fuel.  Since they are shutting down this week the >>East Coast can pretty much not count on their strawberries.  I don’t >>necessarily believe all this but I can damn sure tell you SOMETHING IS >>WRONG.  But I CAN tell you for fact that California is shutting down big >>time and I can email you pictures of rallies, strikes, protests, >>articles, if you would like. >>For those totally "shipping stupid" a truck gets on average 6 mpg. > How much was fuel in 1960? In 1980? How much is it today? Take inflation > into account. > I’m sorry – Fuel is cheap. I paid a buck fifty a gallon 22 years ago when I > started driving. > You know my attitude about this – if the job isn’t paying enough, it’s time > to find another career. Protesting to the govt isn’t going to do squat. The > truckers will cave like they always do.

I agree with you on $100000 ain’t enough.  I’m made my thought loud and clear at home. But $2.50 is ridiculous for diesel and California IS protesting — good for them!  They aren’t protesting to the government.  THey are locking down freeways of commuters. Okay, you paid 1.50.  You ARE a young’un.  What were your mpg?  I’ve already told you freight rates haven’t risen much since the 70’s and fuel has about quadrupled right now. Luckily, we don’t run California BUT almost wish we were so we could protest and rally, too. amy

Response:

"Amy D" <amy…@joimail.com> wrote in message

news:109bfop3t3hotdc@corp.supernews.com… > Halliburton is in Bush’s back pocket.  Maybe you don’t know any of > Halliburton’s employees being captured and tortured.  Or maybe they are > just dumb truckdrivers to you.  But while the two I know were captured > — one from Mississippi and one from my town of Mobile, AL Halliburton > was bickering with the government about WHO pays to try to rescue these > guys.  Hamill, from Mississippi just escaped.  No news yet on our local > driver.  They all have families, kids. > They are luring our truckdrivers over there with promises of $100,000+ > tax-free which is alot of money for a truckdriver.  Hamill sold his > dairy farm to go over there.

He’s nuts, then. 100k isn’t enough money. You couldn’t pay me one million to go over there. I value my life and my loved ones too much. apparantly, he (and the others who go over there for the $) feel differently about family and money than I do. Some people are easy to "lure", I guess. > Now I’m not a radical consiracy theorist but think about it — the > government is starving out our truckdrivers with fuel up to $2.50 a > gallon in California.  All of California is protesting.  GOOD FOR THEM!! >   But think of it on a political level…..we are occupying an oil-rich > company.  What is wrong with this picture??  Halliburton is offering > them $100,000 tax free.   During our worst years California didn’t go > much over $2.00 for fuel.  Since they are shutting down this week the > East Coast can pretty much not count on their strawberries.  I don’t > necessarily believe all this but I can damn sure tell you SOMETHING IS > WRONG.  But I CAN tell you for fact that California is shutting down big > time and I can email you pictures of rallies, strikes, protests, > articles, if you would like. > For those totally "shipping stupid" a truck gets on average 6 mpg.

How much was fuel in 1960? In 1980? How much is it today? Take inflation into account. I’m sorry – Fuel is cheap. I paid a buck fifty a gallon 22 years ago when I started driving. You know my attitude about this – if the job isn’t paying enough, it’s time to find another career. Protesting to the govt isn’t going to do squat. The truckers will cave like they always do.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ignoramus8917 wrote: > In article <4uu0901lludnuh5s19iql5p1ttgug6b…@4ax.com>, Winston

Question:

Tae Bo is not meant to be a course in martial arts or actual fighting.  It is meant to get people moving in an aerobic manner and appeal to those who may not like the "dancing" associated with traditional aerobics classes. Not everyone is interested in the commitment required to take on martial arts in a serious manner.  I happen to enjoy Tae Bo, especially when I’m pressed for time or stuck at home to work out and I find the newer Tae Bo workouts to be quite challenging.

I agree.  I’ve got a 30 minute "Tae Bo Junior" that I like to do with the kids.  Three of my five family members do martial arts and sniff and snort at the pseudo-moves, but it’s still fun if you just take it at face value. Dally

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get out and go walking; if the weather stinks and you have a covered mall, do that. Hey, walking in the rain is actually a *pleasure*! Buy some videos like Billy Blanks Tae Bo and learn it. Yuck! I downloaded a Tae Bo video, and this thing looks awful. Sure, it will probably make you sweat, but it’s an insult to anyone who has practiced martial arts. The moves are half done at insane speed, proper form is neglected, all the teachings of martial arts are forgotten (proper breathing, energy release and focus, acting with your body and mind together). It looks like karate training on a mix of speed and x-tasy. If you were to kick anyone like they do in Tae Bo, you would be more likely to pop your own knee rather than do any damage (unless your opponent dies laughing). I mean, I have nothing against aerobic videos, they have their use. But if you’re going to take a martial art as the pretext, you might as well do the real thing, you will learn and exercise a lot more that way. Kick boxing is already a debased form of classical martial arts (like karate) in order to turn it into a full fighting sport, there was no use to further debase them with Tae Bo.

 Billy Blanks used to live in my area and rented an apartment in a building management by somebody I know.  When he got rich, he moved out and abandoned his cat, at near starvation when they entered the apt a week or so later. Nice guy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just  find a comfortable way for you to eat less, whatever suits you best and doesn’t hurt your health. You don’t need to belong to a gym to exercise, and you don’t really need to exercise to lose weight. Though exercise will slightly help weight loss, will help reduce loss of lean mass (muscles) from the diet, will make it easier to keep your target weight, will make you feel better in your body, and will improve overall look (which is as much a matter of losing fat as of increasing lean mass). If you don’t belong to a gym : – You can buy a few free weights and practive at home. Free weights are all you need for strength training, and they’re inexpensive. – Walk. Walking is the most basic form of physical exercise. 30 minutes of walking a day already greatly improves your health, 1 hour helps a lot with maintening weight loss. If you walk as fast as you can, you are actually burning a significant amount of energy (not to mention that you’re going faster than many week-end joggers :p). A good hint that you’re walking fast enough is if you’re having troubles having a conversation because it disrupts your breathing. And it’s perfectly free. – Run. Same as above. You just need a pair of good shoes. – Buy a pair of rollerblades and use them to move around if you live in the city. During the next blackout/strike, you will have a lot of fun breezing past all these silly people crawling on their feet. A bike works as well. – Buy a decent gym video and do it at home. – Try some community lessons, there are usually many of these available for only a fraction of the cost of a private gym subscription. – Garden, help your friends move out or carry heavy stuff, walk the dog longer (both the dog and yourself will be much better for it), use the stairs instead of the elevator, park your car farther from your destination, don’t use the car to move short distances, if you use the subway get out a couple of station earlier, try to put some energy in your day to day movements. Little optimizations like these can already provide your 30 minutes a day without even feeling like you’re doing them. There are plenty of ways to move your bodies. Not belonging to a gym is a lame excuse to do nothing at all. You don’t need to exhaust yourself, or to do amazing things. What you need is to get off your butt and get your body moving. As long as you do the moves properly and don’t hurt yourself, any kind of exercise will bring some benefit, even if it’s not optimal. How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Yup, and you don’t really need weights.  Walk. do pushups, crunches, etc.  Get an excercise tape at a yard sale. For weights, fill two gallon milk jugs with water (buy nonfat milk and drink it first!)

Response:

How can I lose weight? In the past you’ve been given plenty of good advice on that, and you have ignored it enough to be called a troll. Stop lamenting and start doing.  As long as you lament and expect others to do it for you, you will never have success.

Don’t eat burgers but if you insist, don’t fry them, broil them Mr. Freyburger. — Diva ***** The Best Man for the Job May Be A Woman

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym. Sorry, you can’t. Dally Why can’t I? I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!

And here I was thinking that ASD didn’t have any trolls, silly me… — J.J. in WA State (Change COLD to HOT for e-mail) Start of diet  : 251    Current Weight : 236 Original Weight: 275    Goal Weight    : 150

Response:

How can I lose weight?

In the past you’ve been given plenty of good advice on that, and you have ignored it enough to be called a troll. Stop lamenting and start doing.  As long as you lament and expect others to do it for you, you will never have success.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Get out and go walking; if the weather stinks and you have a covered mall, do that. Hey, walking in the rain is actually a *pleasure*! Buy some videos like Billy Blanks Tae Bo and learn it. Yuck! I downloaded a Tae Bo video, and this thing looks awful. Sure, it will probably make you sweat, but it’s an insult to anyone who has practiced martial arts. The moves are half done at insane speed, proper form is neglected, all the teachings of martial arts are forgotten (proper breathing, energy release and focus, acting with your body and mind together). It looks like karate training on a mix of speed and x-tasy. If you were to kick anyone like they do in Tae Bo, you would be more likely to pop your own knee rather than do any damage (unless your opponent dies laughing). I mean, I have nothing against aerobic videos, they have their use. But if you’re going to take a martial art as the pretext, you might as well do the real thing, you will learn and exercise a lot more that way. Kick boxing is already a debased form of classical martial arts (like karate) in order to turn it into a full fighting sport, there was no use to further debase them with Tae Bo.

Tae Bo is not meant to be a course in martial arts or actual fighting.  It is meant to get people moving in an aerobic manner and appeal to those who may not like the "dancing" associated with traditional aerobics classes. Not everyone is interested in the commitment required to take on martial arts in a serious manner.  I happen to enjoy Tae Bo, especially when I’m pressed for time or stuck at home to work out and I find the newer Tae Bo workouts to be quite challenging. Any exercise one is willing to do regularly is good exercise. Jenn

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym. Sorry, you can’t. Dally

Yup…you are doomed. Might as well supersize that order of fries at Mickey D’s. To the poster above…if you lack the willpower to exercise or modify your diet you will continue to get fat. There is no magic to it. Butch up or quit whining and just accept that you will be fat.

Response:

Get out and go walking; if the weather stinks and you have a covered mall, do that.

Hey, walking in the rain is actually a *pleasure*! Buy some videos like Billy Blanks Tae Bo and learn it.

Yuck! I downloaded a Tae Bo video, and this thing looks awful. Sure, it will probably make you sweat, but it’s an insult to anyone who has practiced martial arts. The moves are half done at insane speed, proper form is neglected, all the teachings of martial arts are forgotten (proper breathing, energy release and focus, acting with your body and mind together). It looks like karate training on a mix of speed and x-tasy. If you were to kick anyone like they do in Tae Bo, you would be more likely to pop your own knee rather than do any damage (unless your opponent dies laughing). I mean, I have nothing against aerobic videos, they have their use. But if you’re going to take a martial art as the pretext, you might as well do the real thing, you will learn and exercise a lot more that way. Kick boxing is already a debased form of classical martial arts (like karate) in order to turn it into a full fighting sport, there was no use to further debase them with Tae Bo.

Response:

There are plenty of ways to move your bodies. Not belonging to a gym is a lame excuse to do nothing at all.

Bingo.  He’s a troll, Lictor. Dally

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym. Sorry, you can’t. Dally Why can’t I? I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!

I have no idea why you can’t.  You’ve been told how a million times. I’ve seen you come here whining at least three times.  You always just present a littany of reasons why it won’t work for you. I believe you.  You can’t lose weight. Please go join the fat-acceptance group and learn to love yourself. You’ll be much happier, believe me. Dally

Response:

Just  find a comfortable way for you to eat less,

I agree with everything here. I would add to join a group of people with the same aim, for example asd. It will help you concentrate on your goal.

Response:

Put a CD in the player and dance as long as it plays. Get out and go walking; if the weather stinks and you have a covered mall, do that. Buy some videos like Billy Blanks Tae Bo and learn it. Get some 4 pound dumbbells and use that. Learn yoga Do pushups and curlups and all those other grade-school calisthenics Spend a solid hour doing housecleaning. Do yardwork, yours or somebody else’s. Buy a bike.  Use it. If there’s a grocery store in walking distance (1 mile or less for example) buy a grocery trolley and leave the car at home. Track your food and make sure you get plenty of fiber and not much fat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Response:

Healthy Stealthy ; writes: Eat less food and/or exercise more.  Eating less usually produces more dramatic results (because it’s easier to reduce calories by eating less than it is by exercising more–it takes a lot of exercise to burn calories).

And also for the fact than exercise tends to make you hungrier, so if you don’t pay attention, you will just stay at your current weight (though the extra muscles won’t hurt).

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym. Sorry, you can’t. Dally

Why can’t I? I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!!

Response:

Healthy Stealthy ; writes: How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Eat less food and/or exercise more.  Eating less usually produces more dramatic results (because it’s easier to reduce calories by eating less than it is by exercising more–it takes a lot of exercise to burn calories). — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

Just  find a comfortable way for you to eat less, whatever suits you best and doesn’t hurt your health. You don’t need to belong to a gym to exercise, and you don’t really need to exercise to lose weight. Though exercise will slightly help weight loss, will help reduce loss of lean mass (muscles) from the diet, will make it easier to keep your target weight, will make you feel better in your body, and will improve overall look (which is as much a matter of losing fat as of increasing lean mass). If you don’t belong to a gym : – You can buy a few free weights and practive at home. Free weights are all you need for strength training, and they’re inexpensive. – Walk. Walking is the most basic form of physical exercise. 30 minutes of walking a day already greatly improves your health, 1 hour helps a lot with maintening weight loss. If you walk as fast as you can, you are actually burning a significant amount of energy (not to mention that you’re going faster than many week-end joggers :p). A good hint that you’re walking fast enough is if you’re having troubles having a conversation because it disrupts your breathing. And it’s perfectly free. – Run. Same as above. You just need a pair of good shoes. – Buy a pair of rollerblades and use them to move around if you live in the city. During the next blackout/strike, you will have a lot of fun breezing past all these silly people crawling on their feet. A bike works as well. – Buy a decent gym video and do it at home. – Try some community lessons, there are usually many of these available for only a fraction of the cost of a private gym subscription. – Garden, help your friends move out or carry heavy stuff, walk the dog longer (both the dog and yourself will be much better for it), use the stairs instead of the elevator, park your car farther from your destination, don’t use the car to move short distances, if you use the subway get out a couple of station earlier, try to put some energy in your day to day movements. Little optimizations like these can already provide your 30 minutes a day without even feeling like you’re doing them. There are plenty of ways to move your bodies. Not belonging to a gym is a lame excuse to do nothing at all. You don’t need to exhaust yourself, or to do amazing things. What you need is to get off your butt and get your body moving. As long as you do the moves properly and don’t hurt yourself, any kind of exercise will bring some benefit, even if it’s not optimal. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

Sorry, you can’t. Dally

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym. Sorry, you can’t. Dally Why can’t I? I WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT!!!!!!! And here I was thinking that ASD didn’t have any trolls, silly me…

You haven’t been in very long, have you? : ) Martha – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — J.J. in WA State (Change COLD to HOT for e-mail) Start of diet  : 251    Current Weight : 236 Original Weight: 275    Goal Weight    : 150

Response:

How can I lose weight? I no longer belong to a gym.

You’re doomed, enjoy eating chocolate to your heart’s content. gotta die happy. CM

Response:

You are cracking me up!!  I needed that after my crappy, busy week!! "Dally" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please go join the fat-acceptance group and learn to love yourself. You’ll be much happier, believe me. Dally

Response:

Also schrieb LOUISE: I have been putting on weight since I become a temporary teacher in a primary school.Can anyone lend me a helping hand,please?I will be most exercises! I dislike doing ex. It  will be extremely good if I don’t have to skip my meals!!!! THANKS!! CAN ANYONE KINDLY  REPLY TO ME?

You should never skip meals. I would suggest telling us how much weight you want to lose, give us an idea of how active you are during the day ("sedentary" sounds like it’s about right) and a sample of your day’s eating.   "Help me lose weight" can’t be responded to very well without hard data. —  Stack FAQ at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/4999/stackfaq.htm  349/345/wherever as the King of Tuna I reserve the right to mock people who spell ‘lose’ with more than one ‘o.’

Response:

Louise, The best way is through healthy eating (never skipping meals) and regular exercise.  I know you said you don’t like exercise (I lothe it myself), so why not try something fun.  Grab a friend and walk around the mall for an hour twice a week, or something to that effect.  Exercise doesn’t necessarily mean grunting in front of some boring aerobics video.  ;-) –roseanne I have been putting on weight since I become a temporary teacher in a primary school.Can anyone lend me a helping hand,please?I will be most exercises! I dislike doing ex. It  will be extremely good if I don’t have to skip my meals!!!! THANKS!! CAN ANYONE KINDLY  REPLY TO ME?

– http://www.spectrum-computers.com http://www.webcreations-va.com Affordable Hardware, Networking, Web Hosting and Design From the Desk of Toto:  Hated Oz, Took the Shoes, Went Home!!

Response:

Requirements to a supportive buddy in the Weight Loss & Fitness Support Group: 1.  Decreased Calorie Intake + Exercise = Weight Loss & Fitness 2.  Give a Daily Report of Food Intake & exercise (physical activity) to me each day and I then consolidate them into one file and send to everyone so that it is all in one piece of mail.  If you do not give Daily Reports, you might not get a copy of other people’s reports either.  WE GIVE AND RECEIVE DAILY REPORTS AS SUPPORT TO ONE ANOTHER.  In addition, most dieting experts agree that keeping a log is the best way to go.  I am not anybody’s mother nor being controlling.  Just sharing the best and highest advice to make our group a success.  PLEASE PARTICIPATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! 3.  I send Weight Loss & Fitness articles everyday (1-5).  Support Members also send articles and tips directly to you. 4.  Chat in  Weight Loss Fitness only on Sunday at 7:00 PM.  If I am not there, just start the chat and invite all of our buddies (in this group) and chat with the goal of preparing for a better upcoming week.  Share what you plan to do to do a better job at weight loss & fitness, discuss strongholds, get help, give help, etc.  And also copy it ans send a copy to the whole group. 5.  If you decide to leave just type REMOVE in the subject line and it is as simple as that. bio on yourself so that the group gets to know you and we go from there.  IT REALLY IS EASIER LOSING WEIGHT WITH THE SUPPORT OF ONLINE BUDDIES.

Response:

From Louise’s post, it looks like she is in Malaysia and there may not be any malls around. But I’d recommend trying to walk for 20 minutes or so everyday (or less often until you’re used to it). Perhaps you could walk to work or to go shopping. It’s all good exercise and may not feel as much like exercise as calisthentics or an exercise video tape. Perhaps you could go bicycling or swim. Those are good exercises too. As the others have said, you shouldn’t be skipping meals. That will make you hungry and when you’re hungry, it’s easier to go off your plan. It’s better to have a series of small meals during the day. I try to have 3 meals and 2 snacks in between. You can lose weight without exercise, but it will be much easier if you do something to help burn calories. Good luck, George 335/312/ask me when I get to 200 following manner: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Louise, The best way is through healthy eating (never skipping meals) and regular exercise.  I know you said you don’t like exercise (I lothe it myself), so why not try something fun.  Grab a friend and walk around the mall for an hour twice a week, or something to that effect.  Exercise doesn’t necessarily mean grunting in front of some boring aerobics video.  ;-) –roseanne I have been putting on weight since I become a temporary teacher in a primary school.Can anyone lend me a helping hand,please?I will be most exercises! I dislike doing ex. It  will be extremely good if I don’t have to skip my meals!!!! THANKS!! CAN ANYONE KINDLY  REPLY TO ME? — http://www.spectrum-computers.com http://www.webcreations-va.com Affordable Hardware, Networking, Web Hosting and Design From the Desk of Toto:  Hated Oz, Took the Shoes, Went Home!!

"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." – Jonathan Swift

Response:

I have been putting on weight since I become a temporary teacher in a primary school.Can anyone lend me a helping hand,please?I will be most exercises! I dislike doing ex. It  will be extremely good if I don’t have to skip my meals!!!! THANKS!! CAN ANYONE KINDLY  REPLY TO ME?

Response:

I’d be a little cautious with this one. The last time I saw Aruthe wander through here, she posted a similar notice for her support group and then posted a reply to a spammer that said she was interested in selling Metabolife. So if you join her group, be prepared for a possible sales pitch. It could also be a very good group, I don’t know. George 335/312/ask me when I get to 200 (ARuthe3916) struck their keyboard in the following manner: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Requirements to a supportive buddy in the Weight Loss & Fitness Support Group: 1.  Decreased Calorie Intake + Exercise = Weight Loss & Fitness 2.  Give a Daily Report of Food Intake & exercise (physical activity) to me each day and I then consolidate them into one file and send to everyone so that it is all in one piece of mail.  If you do not give Daily Reports, you might not get a copy of other people’s reports either.  WE GIVE AND RECEIVE DAILY REPORTS AS SUPPORT TO ONE ANOTHER.  In addition, most dieting experts agree that keeping a log is the best way to go.  I am not anybody’s mother nor being controlling.  Just sharing the best and highest advice to make our group a success.  PLEASE PARTICIPATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! 3.  I send Weight Loss & Fitness articles everyday (1-5).  Support Members also send articles and tips directly to you. 4.  Chat in  Weight Loss Fitness only on Sunday at 7:00 PM.  If I am not there, just start the chat and invite all of our buddies (in this group) and chat with the goal of preparing for a better upcoming week.  Share what you plan to do to do a better job at weight loss & fitness, discuss strongholds, get help, give help, etc.  And also copy it ans send a copy to the whole group. 5.  If you decide to leave just type REMOVE in the subject line and it is as simple as that. bio on yourself so that the group gets to know you and we go from there.  IT REALLY IS EASIER LOSING WEIGHT WITH THE SUPPORT OF ONLINE BUDDIES.

"You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place." – Jonathan Swift

Response:

You can SAY you want to lose weight all you want….but you won’t do it until you actually decide that you want to.    That’s the key. — Mary

Response:

Try replacing your snacks with lower fat/lower calorie options, if you cant give up snacking.  bake french fries in the oven to save a LOT of fat over the fried kind.  Try air popped popcorn, low fat tortillas and salsa, and good old fruits and veggies! Wendy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Hi..everyone.. I desperately want to lose weight. I can’t help snacking late at night and I like to snack on fatty foods like chips and burgers. I can’t help myself. Please help and give me some good advice. Thank you Sunny —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

a good start would to be to replace your chips and burgers with lower fat versions and go from there.  :-) Good Luck –roseanne – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Hi..everyone.. I desperately want to lose weight. I can’t help snacking late at night and I like to snack on fatty foods like chips and burgers. I can’t help myself. Please help and give me some good advice. Thank you Sunny —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Hi, Sunny, I go out for a walk after supper or go and get busy doing something in a part of my house furthest from the kitchen.  What about having a nice, satisfying meal in the evening  so that you’re not hungry?   If you want burgers, have one as part of the meal.   Maybe focus on getting the snacking under control–that’s been important for me.  Good luck and keep posting. Sue 198/193/190 for now

Response:

dear sunny, make sure that you are getting enough calories in during the make sure that you are getting enough water (64oz make sure that you do not have all that snack type stuff in your what diet are you following? — read and post, everyday!  its a commitment to yourself! rosie ALT.SUPPORT.DIET.LOW-CARB FAQ http://www.grossweb.com/asdlc/ ALT.SUPPORT.DIET FAQ http://asd.dozer.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Hi..everyone.. I desperately want to lose weight. I can’t help snacking late at night and I like to snack on fatty foods like chips and burgers. I can’t help myself. Please help and give me some good advice. Thank you Sunny —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

Sunny, Sorry my dear, but no one can help you if you can’t help yourself. You are responsible for your own behaviour! I hope you can find the strength within you, until then, I am not sure anything anyone can say will help! Jacqueline 180/165/140 It’s sad that a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Hi..everyone.. I desperately want to lose weight. I can’t help snacking late at night and I like to snack on fatty foods like chips and burgers. I can’t help myself. Please help and give me some good advice. Thank you Sunny —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response:

  Hi..everyone.. I desperately want to lose weight. I can’t help snacking late at night and I like to snack on fatty foods like chips and burgers. I can’t help myself. Please help and give me some good advice. Thank you Sunny —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

Response: